Well, the price of a four year degree skyrocketed, while the financial return for most degrees is essentially zero. Not that there isn't value beyond monetary compensation to be had in getting alot of degrees but they now come packaged with a lifetime of student loan debt if you're not wealthy or lucky enough to get scholarship money.
Well they made college and grad school cost upwards of 200k+ so no shit
My friends and I talked way back in school about how further engineering education was negatively correlated (not exactly: see comment) with pay after a bachelors and was statistically a terrible deal.
EDIT: That's not to say it's worthless! But it ain't worth what they're charging. There isn't actually a negative correlation in the strict sense but rather there isn't clearly a premium for the degree in all markets. You can be taking a straight up financial loss. The original statement was inaccurate, but that's historically what we told each other.
"They" are the ones who want less education. Uneducated people are more easily controlled.
Someone tried telling me that "they" in parenthesis is antisemitic. Who invented this? I don't know. Probably "them" to get people to dismiss the discussion.
That's (((they))) or """they""" generally, as a not so subtle dogwhistle.
Just 'they' usually means, you know, like, uhh, The Man. TPTB. The Swamp, oligarchs, and sometimes for the Q klan, the globalists, which then bleeds over into anti-jewish rhetoric.
Community college admissions continue to rise because of this. Even students with excellent grades in high school bypass the 4-year institutions as long as possible. It's the same classes either way. Why pay 10 times more?
Dramatic? It was practically manufactured.
Conservatives: Then get a high demand and high paying job!
the field becomes too competitive and saturated and couldn't find jobs
Also conservatives: Then work in a factory!
factory jobs gets taken over by AI
Conservatives for the final and umpteenth time: Fuck you!
decades of debt for a minimum wage job? Wow, hard to see why!
This can't be that shocking to the news media and "analysts". Kids have been practically railroaded into getting at least a BS for decades, a lot of the time to the tune of 10s of thousands of dollars in debt if not more. Now that nearly everyone entering the work place has one it is not the selling point to employers that it was once. Supply and demand and all that.
And that's before you even get into the usefulness of so much of the coursework in a lot of these degree programs. I only have an associates degree and probably half of the program was unrelated to the stated purpose of the degree. I can't imagine how much junk is required for a 4 year or more in the name of being a well rounded person.
Maybe, just maybe, everyone is starting to wake up to just how self serving the college industry has become.
To be clear, this is an issue with the cost, not with the degrees
The cost is so high because companies require degrees for jobs that don’t need them.
It's an issue with cost, but that also extends to the perception of the degree itself. Even a few decades ago I always found American culture to be generally more disdainful towards degrees and degree holders than most of Europe or Asia.
One of the worst things you can be in America is "elitist"; it's a loaded word that describes a fundamentally Un-American attitude. And you can see why - there's plenty of idiots with rich parents and a degree, and a lot of intelligent people with poor parents and no degree. So elitism and intellectual snobbery also imply classism and racism.
In countries with free/cheap tertiary education, it's less controversial to say that people who are qualified to do a thing are likely to be better at that thing, and that getting qualifications is inherently a good thing.
I've felt like this for over a decade. I don't even want to know what cost is now.
Why work hard and study to die poor? Work lazy and die happy
The problem is the cost of college is opaque. They show an upfront cost, but something like 2/3rds of students don’t actually pay that price. Schools have learned they can get more out of people by setting a high price and then giving “aid” discounts than charging a flat price that is affordable to everyone. Also, schools measure themselves by “prestige” and that is determined by admission rate. Schools are luxury brands and they do what luxury brands do… manufacture scarcity. The result is they’re looting the livelihoods of young adults by putting them into indentured servitude. Higher education needs to be reformed. It isn’t the fault of professors. It’s the administrators.
25% of unemployed Americans have a 4 year degree
So 75% don’t?
No, they all have Masters degrees in Anthropology.
I've been telling people this for years: Post-secondary educational institutions are no longer about education; they're a business. They do everything they can to maximize profits, and don't really care about the quality of education.
Good maybe we will finally have some market correction and colleges realize they are not a staple for the American dream anymore.
Employers no longer universally take a college degree as a way to skip ahead in the line of employment. A college degree should basically be a ticket to any job within that degree field. In practice, that’s incredibly unlikely. I started at minimum wage with my first job out of college lmao. My second job netted me like 50¢ more.
I recall a podcast I listened to years ago talking about some schools trying out a new model that worked something like...
Instead of taking out a loan, you just enter into a contract with the school that x% of your paycheck for the first z years after graduation go to the school. Kinda like child support.
Get an unemployable degree and now your making burgers for minimum wage? Then you don't owe anything.
Get an amazing job that pays a ton? That degree is going to cost you.
Now it's in the school's best interest to A) offer degrees that are actually worth something instead of misleading students down a dead end path, and B) help students find and keep good positions after graduation.
It sounded awesome. But what I found infuriating were the people they interviewed that benefitted from the program, now had fantastic high salary jobs, and were whining about how much they were having to pay for the education and program that got them into that high paying job in the first place.
The issue with this is that knowledge should be it's own reward. Where I live college costs a pittance. If you want to study fine art, that course should be available and is.
What you're suggesting sounds great in a very practical respect but would only further benefit capitalism at the cost of wider knowledge. Many of the things that are worth learning in life to so many would immediately disappear from college curriculums.
The goal should be to make third level education cheap enough that anyone can do it without crippling themselves financially.
I proposed this to a boomer 15 years ago and man was he so angry at the thought of wages being garnished to pay loans for 10 years.
Like how does that change the situation if I have to pay regardless? If anything it might be great for me to reduce my taxable income.
Because it should be more affordable
Student debt has been increasing faster than ceo pay. Its not a sustainable system but it also will lead to more companies importing workers with hb1 visas, which is probably honestly the corporate plan.
Why pay for workers with rights to go to school when you can just import people who already have a degree you didnt pay for and who you can treat like shit?
When you come out of school carrying six figures of debt into an economy where you will never afford a house and won’t pay off the debt until you are 50. An entry level job that requires 5 years experience and pays 35000 a year. Yeah. That checks out.
Its 2025 are we seriously still taking "polls" as fact?
Polls have been pretty accurate. Some of the polls involving elections Trump specifically runs in have been less accurate, but even the polling of his race in 2024 was pretty accurate.
I just did a poll and the results suggest polls are actually inaccurate.
There are still plenty of jobs that are gated by a college credential. Tech was the biggest way aorund skipping it, and tech is imploding.
I don't doubt what you say is true, but could you list some examples of jobs that are gated by a college credential?
Anything in healthcare, which are the last college degree jobs that consistently pay over average.
At 18, I went to community college. During my 2 years there, I absolutely fucked my credit by getting credit cards and not paying it back.
So thinking my credit was bad, I decided I couldn't afford University. So I just decided to lie that I had a degree and just kept doing interviews and when it came down to the background checks, I didn't lie.
About 20% of the companies I got an offer for talked to the hiring manager who cared about my fake degree. The rest just turned a blind eye or didn't care.
At 46, I don't lie anymore. After 20 years in the industry, They just care about places I worked and responsibilities I had.
Degrees and grades only matter for younger and less experienced folks.
Yup, so just lie about everything. But do your homework and learn about the job you're doing.
I should have been an escalator repairman. Those guys look like they have job security.
Escalators don't break, they turn into stairs.
Edit: This comment has been up 2 days and no one get the Mitch Hedberg reference. Fo same, Lemmy.
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