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Food is literally free
(lemmy.ml)
If only someone had a theory that explains that alienation ๐ค
May I introduce you to the works of Kras Mazov?
I'm a level 3 infra-materialist. I power the entire neighborhood just by thinking about mutual aid.
Hardcore!
I remember reading in a game design book how they had a real hard time saying why "play" was different from "work," since you're often performing the same behaviours and chasing similar short term goals.
'Punished by Rewards' by Alfie Kohn should be required reading, explained all my hatred for school and work ๐
Sustainable population of hunter-gatherers for this planet is just a few millions.
No one is asking for complete transition to hunting and gathering.
๐๐ปโโ๏ธ
Ok. This person is.
As soon as you add agriculture you'll get land ownership and conflict. Food stops being free, if you take it, you'll get killed.
Only if society allows private ownership of the means of production. Collective ownership is a thing.
As soon as you add agriculture you'll get land ownership
That's not true. Land can be held in the commons.
Sure, but even if the land is held by the commons someone has to do the actual farming, someone has to bring that food to you , someone has to build the road and the truck that makes this even possible, someone needs to feed you with a spoon because you don't want to work.
Congratulations in this scenario lots of people need to work, except for you.
I think there's a mismatch of definitions here: The original post probably means "wage labour" when they wrote "work". It's in the second paragraph.
This assumes unversal jurisdictions. This is not what happenes when hunter-gatherers and even nomadic pastoralists attempt to use the agricultural land, which can be in the commons, according to the local agricultural society. Problem is, the others don't see it that way.
This is for the sake of argument. In practice, all animals are territorial, and chimpansee societies go to war with each other over territory. So you will get hunter-gatherers attacking other tribes, for access to prime territory.
This assumes unversal jurisdictions.
Why? Historically, cultural norms were established to keep the peace.
This is not what happenes when hunter-gatherers and even nomadic pastoralists attempt to use the agricultural land, which can be in the commons, according to the local agricultural society. Problem is, the others don't see it that way.
The historical context today is different, though. Land is way easier to defend than back when raiding pastoralist tribes could ransack the place.
In practice, all animals are territorial
That's an unsubstantiated claim that is wrong afaik.
and chimpansee societies go to war with each other
And Bonobos don't. Cherry-picking species is not a generisable argument.
So you will get hunter-gatherers attacking other tribes, for access to prime territory.
Hunter-gatherers don't really have that concept of land.
Look at how Guyausa sales is managed.
_
For some people, work brings them validation. If you're doing a good job at work, you are praised for it because you are "useful". I think this mindset is relic from our prehistoric past when being useful is contributing to your tribe. The difference though is that most of us are working in private sector, as in working for an individual. A lot of our work don't necessarily and directly benefit society. In fact, some of our jobs are based on exploitation to cut cost and turn bigger profit. Sure, we pay taxes and it goes to welfare and that is how, as workers we are "contributing to society", but some of those taxes into politician's pockets or paid to companies that manufacture bombs and ammunitions to kill civilians abroad. "Earning your keep" and "being useful" are phrases still used but became meaningless under the capitalist system.
Another thing why some people like to work is that it is a distraction from their own personal problems. I understand why but I don't agree, although you do you.
Lastly, some people aren't creative enough to have hobbies or do any activities outside work. They make work their life as a result.
These are the reasons why some people prefer work and can't think of life outside of work. I'm sure there are other reasons so feel free to contribute.
Failed to load media, while the original works?
Op has never worked a day on a farm in their life. Id bet probably hasnt even seen one in real life before.
We had a small farm growing up. Ten acres farm/field, 5 acres woods. One acre garden, all the animals.
Was it hard? Yes, I spent my summers in the field as a kid/teen instead of out at the mall with my friends. My work ethic is impeccable, so long as I agree the job I'm doing is helpful, moral and ethical.
That's what the post is talking about, the value of your own labor for your own benefit.
The head of the household, ran that farm. He worked 38 hours in three days at an employee owned factory, with weekend differential and paid for 40 hours. The other five days, he worked the farm with his three children as helpers. It was a lot of work, even in winter, a lot of work. But the payoff was worth it, the feeling you get producing your own food is fantastic.
No I don't want to go punch in for minimum wage serving coffee or work at a non employee owned factory where there give you a $1 more than minimum wage and pluck your ass at an injection molding machine. But I would, and do, work hard turning my small plot into a food garden every fucking summer, to try and remember my roots, because the effort is valuable to me, as it's my own, and the pay off my own to share with whom I want.
Do you have a big like, Ag farm? We had a small family farm, big Ag is much different for sure, but the work to payoff is different when you're in business for yourself vs a company.
It's low hanging fruit socialist agitprop from c/196. Don't overthink it, comrade.
because you are alienated from the fruits of your labor.
Sometimes I think Marx was just the first "conspiracy theory loving podcast bro" but he didn't have any of the material to distract him. He also was very privileged and did not have to spend his entire life delivering Taco Bell for Uber Eats. But for some reason he still had that same fundamental need to find an explanation for what we all feel so strongly today. It's punching us in the face.
Like, Marx gets a lot of credit because he and Engels wrote the best criticisms that have stood the test of time. But, if you lived in that time, most writings were about class conflict in some form. Hell, the "father of capitalism" (Adam Smith) was even extremely critical of obvious contradictions and was very critical of landlords.
As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for its natural produce.
The last century has been mostly about trying to scare the working class into submission. Pointing to "failures" of socialism as if they existed in a bubble; and not the reality of every necessary resource of the capitalist class going to fighting it.
This is primarily done in developing nations. The US ensures it installs dictators or makes the conditions of the countries impossible through embargos (Cuba/DPRK). But in the US it's mostly controlled by distractions. The conspiracy theories, toys, drugs, etc.
But the imperial core control is failing. And, my hope, is even if we don't see progress in the west. That the internal chaos we experience will finally allow the nations the west oppresses to break free.
The alienation we feel needs to be understood in this context. We hate our jobs because they serve no other purpose but to allow us to afford the available distractions we are allowed. Distractions that are becoming less and less meaningful as our material conditions decline and we become more connected to all workers of the world.
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this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2025
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Antiwork
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