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submitted 3 days ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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[-] AGM@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Fear mongering is the main way to motivate people to spend on weapons, but I would encourage anyone to go look at the actual data on spending levels:

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS

For spending as % of GDP the Saudis have been the big leaders among sizable players for ages. Russia and the US were next at similar percent of GDP for a long time until the Ukraine war, but with Russia having a much smaller GDP.

China has been consistently pretty close to 1.7% for decades, below the old 2% NATO target and way below the new 5% NATO target.

China's spending growth has all just been as a result of a growing economy and the GDP getting larger as the % of GDP spent on military has remained the same. Their % of GDP on military spending has been half or less of the US % of GDP.

The US alone has been over 1/3 of global military spending and will now be $1T on their own.

Reaching the new 5% NATO target would put NATO collectively at over $2.5T.

At 5%, NATO spending would be around 8-10× Chinese spending.

Even factoring in purchasing power and using the figures pushed by US hawks that China is secretly spending double their official figures, NATO would still be multiples higher than China.

On a per capita basis, at 5% of GDP, those of us in NATO will be spending 7-8 times what Chinese are spending.

Russian spending has obviously escalated dramatically since 2022, but even then is still very small compared to what NATO is aiming to reach.

We are all heading into austerity for social programs to fund massive increases in military spending that are way, way beyond the spending of Russia and China combined.

At 5%, NATO will be spending 5× the combined defense spending of all of BRICS+.

In fact, at 5% NATO will be spending more than the entire global military spending during any time during the Cold War, adjusted for inflation.

To me, this level of spending is not reasonable and we're only doing it because the US has pushed us into doing it because it serves their interests.

Is this really how to defend the West? We're going to spend ourselves right out of the types of social benefits that we take so much pride in just to fund an insane arms race as the US pushes towards WW3 under a fascist dictatorship.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago

Not only that, but we also see that the money is simply going to stuff the pockets of the oligarchs who own the military industrial complex. Russia alone is outproducing all of NATO militarily right now despite having far smaller GDP and only spending a fraction of what NATO spends on its military. The whole thing is basically a scheme to divert our taxes from what they're meant for, such as building infrastructure, providing healthcare services, education, and putting them back in the pockets of rich capitalists. Nothing much of value is produced in the process.

[-] AGM@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Pretty much. We are in the era of private equity style vulture capitalism applied to nation states, stripping their resources and their tax bases of all they can.

Oh great. That means we'll be paying Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, General Dynamics, etc. We'll be giving a buttload of our tax money to American weapons manufacturers probably.

I fucking hate this government.

[-] ArmchairAce1944@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

I voted for Carney. I apologize...

Not your fault you got duped.

[-] caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

I did because First Past the Post eliminates real choice.

I mean, we could all have voted for the NPD and potentially got them more seats. Ridings that voted NDP last time voted for a Liberal candidate this time around.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago

Carney is literally going to do austerity in Canada to feed the military industries of a country that's openly threatening to annex Canada. You could not think of a worse idiot to be at the helm right now.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 6 points 2 days ago
[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

I somehow doubt that anything would be substantially different under Poilievre. All these clowns represent the interests of the same oligarchs that own the country.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 days ago

In this context probably not. But in other aspects there are differences. Not in which class they serve but intra-class allegiance differences. Like which oligarchs do they serve directly, do they prioritize Canadian ones or not, do they slash the welfare state by 15% or remove parts of it altogether. You know - the traditional lib vs con differences, like R v D in the US, con v labour in the UK.

But again, this isn't a substantial disagreement. 😅

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago

Yeah, I think we're on the same page here.

[-] LeFantome@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago

It better not be to American companies

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago

Not only because of the obvious effects but also because of how overpriced their products are. These fuckers are experts at profit-maximizing.

[-] ohshit604@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

Chances are Colt Canada is involved given they’re the “secret” contractor/partner in the governments firearm “buyback” program.

Wouldn’t shock anyone if they worked up a defence deal at the same time.

[-] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 days ago

I hope they don't bleed you dry like the complex does the US.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 points 2 days ago

That’s perked up a few ears on Bay Street. With annual defence spending set to more than double by 2035, investors say they’re turning bullish on a sector that has historically flown under the radar.

Perked up you say. 🥹

[-] Scotty@scribe.disroot.org 0 points 2 days ago

With annual defense spending set to more than double by 2035, investors say they’re turning bullish on a sector that has historically flown under the radar.

Given the changing security landscape and Canadian defense investments flew under the radar, it comes with no surprise that the industry is now bullish on the sector I would say.

Other countries' military spending has been bullish for a long time. China, for example, has been heavily investing in its military complex for 30 years. In Russia, the defense minister is an economist which apparently means that the Kremlin is not up to stop its war games anytime soon.

It would certainly be better if the world spent money for something else than weapons, but the problem here is not Canada. It comes from threats brought about by foreign malign actors.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

Does anybody seriously think that Canada would be taking on Russia or China? The biggest danger to Canada is obviously the US, and the way US would capture Canada wouldn't be by military force, but by leveraging social instability that will result from the austerity policies to feed this massive increase in the military budget. You appear to have a one dimensional view of security focused on the military. The reality is that security starts with having social stability and a functional economy that serves the interests of the public. Undermining that to focus on the military is the height of idiocy.

[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Was gonna say, we fight China, Russia and the US (just reusing the framing) with production. With an economy that is (socially) stable and productive enough to make the various commodities that we currently can only import. You can't have security while external players could disrupt your economy with a few keystrokes.

Production of defense commodities is downstream from that since those outputs are used in defense production. Even if you use defense production as a demand driver. If the economomy isn't stable and productive we can't sustain any sort of hot war, should we need to.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

Exactly, the best way to ensure security of Canada is by investing in self reliance. We should be building out domestic industries to build infrastructure, housing, provide healthcare, education, and so on. That's what makes the country strong, what leads to social cohesion, and genuine sovereignty.

I certainly agree with you, I wish we did not have to invest in weapons.

All this money only really flows to the top and helps protect the interests of those at the top.

Instability in the world is tough to see. I think if we do need to build weapons we should be making investment to build them here in Canada. After all, should anything happen, having the technical skills at home becomes a vital asset.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago

We don't have to invest in weapons. Nobody aside from the US is threatening Canada, and it's pretty clear that sending billions to the US military industries isn't going to make Canada more secure.

[-] ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago

It will make things worse because it will ensure that big corps have a reason for Canada to use the weapons. God, what a shit show! Sorry y'all.

this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2025
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