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Most servers around the world run Linux. The same goes for almost all supercomputers. That's astonishing in a capitalist world where absolutely everything is commodified. Why can't these big tech companies manage to sell their own software to server operators or supercomputers? Why is an open, free project that is free for users so superior here?

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[-] Zak@lemmy.world 24 points 2 weeks ago

Microsoft tried to make Windows Server popular. Apple sold a server OS and even its own rack-mount servers for a while.

The people using servers, and often the people making the decisions about what to use have a high degree of technical knowledge and skill. The things that drive popularity in consumer operating systems such as being preloaded on devices and having a polished GUI don't have as big an influence on experts.

Customizability, reliability, and performance do have a big influence on what experts choose, and Linux wins on those points. There's also the history of proprietary Unix being big in the server/supercomputer market, and Linux is an obvious successor.

[-] Canopyflyer@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

30 year IT Professional here...

^ That guy gets it

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Ok. You seem to understand the basic concept I've been screaming for years. That is that not all users are the same.

I've been saying for a while that linux doesn't face a usability issue. It faces an image issue.

I know a friend who will not even LOOK at Linux, because she asked me "how do I install software?". I answered that there's two ways. The first is going to a software manager, and using that to download the program. Just like googles app store on android. If it's not there, you type sudo apt install (program).

The second I mentioned that second part, she said "Ohhhh no no no no no. I won't remember all that...."

For her the software manager is going to be the absolute best way. HOWEVER, the image of linux is that it's only for tech gurus who can navigate terminal.

So she has a point here. Yes, there are alternative ways to do things, but for people, it's all about image. Just look at Coke ads. There's nothing special about them. Red can, white classic logo, maybe a polar bear or santa during the holidays. But it works because of image.

So, my question is, why doesn't linux collectively NOT DISABLE terminal, but instead de-escalate the prominance on which the platform is defined. Why not make it in image closer to what cmd prompts in windows are?

If you search "how to _____ in windows 10", you'll get a tutorial with photos, and step by step in how to solve your issue, using only the mouse. Almost 100% of the time.

But if you search "how to ____ in (distro of choice)" you'll be given a tutorial almost 100% of the time in terminal commands.

If you "get" terminal, you'll understand the errors. I've tried using terminal off and on for about 17 years now. I have a 0% succsess rate of it doing the thing it needs to do. I'm sure these errors are simple. If I knew what it was telling me, I'm sure theres probably an easy fix.

But a good example is, there was some program I wanted. Its not in my software center. In order to run it, I need something called "python3". I attempt sudo apt install python3. I get a message saying python3 is already installed. I try to install the program. Program says prerequisit python3 needs to be installed. I sudo apt install python3. Python3 is already installed. Sudo apt update python3. Python3 is already latest version. Try to install the program. Still doesn't think python3 is installed.

I don't know how to fix that. I don't even know what python3 is. That was 4 years ago. I don't even remember what program I was trying to install. I just remember it was during the days I was recovering from cancer, so for 3 months, all day every day I tried to solve it.

I never solved it.

So, why can YOU easily see that normal every day users use these machines differently than experts, with different needs?

Just make the IMAGE of Linux easy enough for toddlers. 12 years ago my 2 year old niece was using an iPad. Even today her dad says she'd never understand Linux. She could....if she tried it. Because a lot of distros function user friendly. But it has that image problem. And until Linux becomes mainstream, the software will never be 1:1. It will be "gimp vs photoshop". And as long as thats the case, usability isn't 100% for normies. Theres still tons of rough edges. And those rough edges become easily solved through terminal. And now we're back to the image problem.

Why don't the distro makers get this?

[-] HyperlinkYourHeart@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

The terminal is the common denominator between different desktop environments, and between distros for many things. It's hard to get away from that.

[-] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I can relate to being intimidated by any instructions that mention the terminal. When I first started with Linux I would prefer doing stuff using a GUI over command line.

I started getting into hobbyist coding stuff, and fifteen years later I'm much more comfortable with the terminal.

Even so, I think trying to make Linux more palatable for the average person is going to be tough. It's very difficult to make something that's powerful and extensible while also being easy to use.

[-] MotoAsh@piefed.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

In Linux' defense, Python's mess is its own problem.

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[-] justdaveisfine@piefed.social 10 points 2 weeks ago

A big piece is licensing. When you're throwing hundreds or thousands of processor cores into a data center, somewhere a Microsoft VAR is just drooling to sell you datacenter license packs that you'll need to renew/repurchase for every major OS upgrade. Ah, and you'll need device/user cals. Oh you want to manage it too? Oof.

[-] Shadow@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago

Just to really drive this point home, if I go and price out a dell R470 with the default config from dell.ca it's $9700. If i want a windows server license, that's another $4700 on top of that.

Why pay 50% more for software that is slower and harder to support? That's not even thinking about SQL server licensing which is even more expensive.

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Almost anyone buying servers already has Microsoft enterprise agreement licenses, which are much cheaper than that retail price.

[-] justdaveisfine@piefed.social 2 points 2 weeks ago

This is true, but as I recall the minimum users you need to get an enterprise agreement license is ~500 users. So you're already talking over 6 figures to have the option to buy cheaper server OS licenses.

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Maybe I'm misremembering the name, it's been a while. I remember the minimum volume license purchase was five licenses, but you could buy one Windows server license at whatever price, and four $5 whatever licenses.

[-] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Almost anyone buying servers already has Microsoft enterprise agreement licenses, which are much cheaper than that retail price.

Right. But Linux is.... checks notes... free.

Edit: Just because y'all want to pay for support does not make Linux any less free.

[-] PainInTheAES@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Enterprise Linux however is not. The majority of places won't buy anything without support. Which is why I sell a lot of Red Hat.

[-] Pistcow@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I worked for a mid size distribution center and just the licensing fees for all types of software for about 500 workers was $100k a month. Just basic warehouse management, erp, Microsoft, etc. Let alone data center licensing.

[-] ch00f@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Microsoft comes out with Windows Supercomputer Pro.

They sell 6 copies.

When you're running exotic hardware, everything is custom. Linux is the most easily customizable.

[-] morphballganon@mtgzone.com 5 points 2 weeks ago

One thing I'm not seeing mentioned is Windows forces restarts and updates, which admins really don't want to have servers interrupted by, at intervals of Microsoft's choosing. With Linux you choose 100% of the restart and update times.

[-] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

That's not really how Windows servers work. Most large enterprises are likely going to be using WSUS or other patch management for updates where you can choose exactly which patches you want and when to do them. Those updates do almost always require reboots, but again you can schedule those reboots at a time of your choosing.

[-] 3abas@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Even without WSUS, you can disable automatic updates and reboots. Plenty of Windows servers sitting there unpatched with uptime in years.

[-] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

For sure, I honestly just added that bit so it would sound like i knew what i was talking about at least a little bit.

Also the idea of a windows server having an uptime in years gives me chills in a bad way.

[-] UnspecificGravity@piefed.social 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You answered your own question:

That’s astonishing in a capitalist world where absolutely everything is commodified.

If you bought windows for the hundred or so servers you manage how much is that going to cost you up front and then again every time Microsoft decides to just end support and roll out a new OS? How much work does it take to manage those licenses and make those updates? And what are you getting in return for that additional expense?

[-] Sneptaur@pawb.social 3 points 2 weeks ago

Linux has an extremely flexible architecture. Before Linux, most servers ran on UNIX, and before that, well, networking was in a very early and rudimentary stage.

When UNIX licensing shenanigans kept happening, Linux was a more and more attractive option as it matured.

Today, Linux is an incredibly flexible, reliable and performant OS. It's free, in most cases. Why would anyone use anything else? HPC software all runs on Linux and UNIX. You can run it on a tiny little SBC like a raspberry pi, you can run it in an embedded system like car infotainment or a smart meter, and you can run it on ultra high-performance supercomputer clusters. It doesn't give a damn; it just works.

Why would we use anything else? Apple's ecosystem, while great, makes no sense in the server world. They have their own unique directory service that nobody wants to support (unless they're trying to sell something to Apple themselves), they have total control over the OS and its capabilities, and it's technically illegal to modify. Windows has a heavy GUI, and its command-line interface is middling at best and difficult to learn. Windows excels in backwards compatibility and ease of deployment, which makes it ideal for small and medium businesses, but it quickly becomes irrelevant once you scale to a certain point. This is why they've got their Azure AD product, for example. It's attempting to fix the scalability issues with Windows Server. Having spoken to some of the developers of Windows Server, it's also plain as day that Microsoft is only really maintaining Windows Server to collect on their existing contracts. They have no desire to grow that part of their business.

With all of this in mind, Linux the most obvious choice. It takes no time at all to slap a copy of Ubuntu Server on a pizza box and have a functioning server up in an hour. Everything else is more complex, slower, and costs money.

[-] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I want to add; MS actively discourages running Windows Server with a GUI. It's meant to be headless and managed by PowerShell.

[-] PoopingCough@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Which IME almost no one does. If you're already going to be interacting with a server solely through a CLI, why not just use Linux on the first place.

[-] shalafi@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Sometimes you're stuck running IIS or SQL Server or the like. Can't think of anything personal I'd have to run on Windows Server, but commercial is another world. In any case, I always ran headless given the option.

[-] frongt@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 weeks ago
[-] no_pasaran@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago

But that raises the question: why can't tech companies, with all their billions, manage to produce software that is at least on a par with Linux?

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Linux is made by tens of thousands of experts who care about what they're making. No amount of money could hire that amount of expertise, herd that many cats, or elicit that much passion.

[-] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

They could, if they wanted to. This is somewhat an example of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it".

A lot of that is the fact that Linux is run incredibly lean. Replicating that isn't cheap. They absolutely can, but since Linux is free and they can even modify it to suit their needs, its far simpler to do that.

Android is the best example. Google wanted a phone OS, so they bought Android Inc, who was making one. They could've spun up their own with their own talent, hired more, etc, but just absorbed one instead. That talent was making a phone OS based on Linux, because, again, they could've delved into the details of OS creation, but it was far easier to take a free OS, change the bits you want changed (like adding touchscreen support, which to my knowledge, wasn't in the Linux version Android started with), and run with the new version you've made.

It's also worth pointing out that Google has spent a lot of money on Android, and other large companies spend a lot on developing their own custom Linux Distro. It's not like they have one software engineer for Android who downloaded Linux once and changed it. These companies are willing to do what you describe, they just didn't have to reinvent the wheel. The Linux kernel, thanks to the community behind it, is incredibly secure and efficient, and there just wasn't any reason to change it or copy it when it exists and is free to use.

[-] breezeblock@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 weeks ago

Those companies have incentives to maximize profit, not maximize efficiency. In particular Microsoft has relentlessly given developers the opposite of what they want because its more profitable to some decision maker within Microsoft. Its enshitification.

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Most servers around the world run Linux.

True.

Why can’t these big tech companies manage to sell their own software to server operators

Lots of companies large and small are running commercial distributions of Linux including with paid licensing for products Like RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux) or SUSE. Millions of other servers are on co-branded versions of Linux that are provided for free to the customer as long as the customer continues to use the company's service. Examples here are Amazon Linux or Oracle Linux (both of which you're only allowed to run if they're operating on Amazon or Oracle Cloud servers. Now, these same companies likely also use unlicensed free Linux in places, either disposable clusters or labs, but if an application has commercial uptime requirements (meaning downtime costs money), few companies run free Linux in those specific applications.

or supercomputers?

This is a frighteningly small install base to try to sell a commercial operating system on. How many supercomputers are there in the world? Perhaps 1000? Moreover, these are such specialized set ups that trying to make a one-size-fits-all OS is likely impossible.

Why is an open, free project that is free for users so superior here?

Just because there is free Linux does not mean that all Linux servers in the world are free.

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[-] hexdream@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

It was mentioned in the threads, but I don't think it got enough attention. Mostly it comes down to money. Yes, customization, efficiency, etc of Linux, but also because every $ not spent on licensing is a $ you can spend.on making the data center better. So maybe it's buying.more hardware, or having more money for infrastructure like electricity , cooling, and bandwidth. Or just plain profit. Licensing is a nightmare with microsoft. Rather save the money and time and.make a better data center.

[-] aesthelete@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Because they have to work

[-] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Because being beholden to a single mega corp is a massive business risk. If MS decides to yank support or they go under then you suddenly need to migrate to a new OS for your entire server farm with all the problems that come with it, like having to port all your custom software to the new OS. Also if the US decides to sanction the country your business resides in than you are also fucked if you run your entire IT infrastructure on Windows. Linux being opensource mitigates all those problems. Like if for some reason you can't use the distro you use you can always migrate to a fork.

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Linux requires a lot more knowledge to get functioning properly, but gives more freedom when you do.

Good thing IT experts aren't regular users and can handle that just fine. Supercomputers datacenters also have their own support on hand. They don't need to outsource it like they do in regular businesses.

That and the licenses.

[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Windows sucks. Linux has so many more features than you could ever think. Ulimit is a major one. B.P.F. is another.

[-] normonator@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

It works well, has little to no vendor lock in, and has reasonable or no licensing costs.

Also drivers can be developed without needing anyones permission or validation like with Windows drivers.

[-] graycube@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Most servers do not need a fancy user interface. They don't have monitors attached to them. Most of the other OSes you listed come bundled with a ton of user experience software along with the expectation a human will directly interact with them.

Servers are typically deployed and managed with automation, by the thousands. Lean. Simple. Secure. Tuned for their specific purpose. This is a lot easier to do with Linux than an all purpose general use personal computing platform.

[-] KarnaSubarna@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

Linux offers near-endless customisation and Kernel is also open sourced for any kind of (performance) tweaks.

Moreover, Linux is, by design, better suited to be a server OS than desktop OS.

These are the same reasons why most of the web servers across world runs on Linux based distros.

[-] massacre@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

I'm going to contest you on one point. Linux is well suited as a server OS for all kinds of reasons, true, but it is absolutely just as well suited as a desktop OS. Even for (maybe especially for?) the masses. I consider any thinking otherwise as dated at this point. Arguably only MacOS is slightly better and it's essentially a 'nix derivative with it's own quirks.

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[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Amazon's and Google's OSes already are Linux variants. The thing that makes Android is the GUI userland, not the underlying system which is just Linux with a libc implementation not by GNU.

[-] FunnySalt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

And MacOS is a BSD variant, so also Unix-like under the hood. So Microsoft is the only real black sheep in that ecosystem.

[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Us oldsters remember the UNIX wars. There were a number of different flavours of UNIX fighting for commercial domination. In the end they all failed because of fragmentation. This is why Linux won.

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this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2026
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