Based Vampire the Masquerade : rpgmemes

[-] FreddiesLantern@leminal.space 3 points 3 hours ago

Good on them for stating it upfront though. (The mention of “alt-right” indicates a more recent version?).

Back in the 90’s/early 00’s it definitely attracted people both left and right winged.

However from my personal experience right wingers was more prevalent in wargaming compared to rpg’s. (Which really sucked because there you were enjoying a nice back n forth about Warhammer and then out comes the racist nazi talk…)

Games Workshop did good by making a pretty strong statement a while ago. But I’m afraid it’ll always be a thing.

[-] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 20 points 7 hours ago

Eat the Reich

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 hours ago

Quite literally, in the case of VTM

[-] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.org 7 points 6 hours ago

Maybe I am being whooooshed but just in case: Eat The Reich is a separate RPG where the goal is basically killing as many Nazis as possible as bad ass vampires.

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 hours ago

Ah, I did not know that.

[-] Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 hours ago

Yes, I was referencing this game. But aside from the game I love the wordplay on "eat the rich" and both are tenets to live by.

[-] Gladaed@feddit.org 2 points 4 hours ago

Yes, but I believe you should have either phrased this nice enough to actually affect people or much more aggressive and definitive instead of this rather diplomatic statement.

[-] starlinguk@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago

Isn't this the game Rod Ferrell (Vampire Clan murderer) was obsessed with? Maybe that's why fascists like it.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 hours ago

Rod Ferrell

Vesaaaaaaaaago, what a fuckwit ahah

[-] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 20 points 11 hours ago

The amount of fascists that played in my town is what turned me off of White Wolf. That and the sex pests trying to seduce the ladies with die rolls in real life.

[-] Iunnrais@piefed.social 45 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

On the one hand, good on them for trying a “nazi punks fuck off” type move.

On the other hand, a blood sucking aristocracy that feeds off the “lesser people” beneath them as the protagonists… that’s nearly the definition of fascism?

[-] Sir_Gkar@lemmy.world 72 points 11 hours ago

From what I recall (and this may vary between editions), the game tends to assume that most people are playing younger vampires who aren't anything like an aristocracy. By default, you play as the bottom rung of vampire society, the youngest generation in a system where the older generations will never grow old and die. The aristocrats aren't the protagonists, they are the ever present boot stomping you down.

More importantly, the core concept of the game is supposed to be about the "personal horror" of being a monster. You were a (presumably) ordinary person who has been violated, killed, and brought back as an abomination. Your existence is defined by the struggle against the beast within. You are desperately clinging to your humanity, and every time you slip up or compromise you risk losing a piece of yourself that you can't get back. You suffer mechanical penalties for becoming more evil, and if you ever lose your humanity completely you lose your character.

In short, the game isn't supposed to be the kind of thing that would appeal to a fascist. If anything, it has more in common with the experience of waking up to find yourself surrounded by fascists and trying to survive without becoming one of them.

[-] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 27 points 11 hours ago

Yup, this is pretty much it. I played a campaign of it. Essentially, you're so far down the hierarchy you're basically almost human, with older vampires being a far far greater threat than humans, struggling to understand and survive vampire society before it destroys you. As you said, there's also a fair chunk of trying to hold on to what humanity you still have left.

[-] Iunnrais@piefed.social 8 points 11 hours ago

That is entirely fair. I only know V:tM from people I knew who played it… but they were, as individuals, definitely more on the fascist side, leaning more into the glamour of being a monster rather than the horror of being a monster.

I hope more groups and players lean into the horror of it more than the glamour. Maybe this note is trying to encourage that.

[-] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -5 points 8 hours ago

I think treating inhumanity as horror is pretty fascist. I'm in love with a very sweet monster who hates Nazis, and I'm a big fan of Guillermo del Toro's movies where humans tend to be more evil than monsters.

In My experience VTM players trend fascist because the game encourages you to accept the Camarilla's fascist idolisation of humanity.

[+] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -13 points 8 hours ago

Treating humanity as better than "the beast within" is human supremacism, which is fascism. The Camarilla rely on Humanity to protect them from oblivion because they're a fascist organisation. The Sabbat use the Paths to make peace with the beast within while maintaining their individuality and free will.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago

Tbh, equating anyone who doesn't value animals at the same level as humans with fascists is pretty misguided and not helpful at all.

[-] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -3 points 3 hours ago

I apologise for the aggressive tone of My first reply to you, and will now attempt a more measured response:

We're talking about fantasy creatures and their equality with humans. I'm a fantasy creature. Denigrating other inhumans is a very slippery slope to denigrating inhuman creatures like Me. I and other members of the otherkin community would prefer to know that you're an ally.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Depends on whether we are roleplaying right now or talking about real-life here.

If this is role-play, then of course it's a fun way to explore the effects and implications of racism in a safe and hypothetical way.

If this is real life, then it's honestly beside the point because transspeciesism isn't a thing and thus not even a hardcore racist will think you aren't human just because you fancy thinking of yourself as a unicorn.

[-] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -3 points 2 hours ago

I'm talking about neither reality nor roleplay. I'm talking about genuinely held identity. As you can see by My home instance, I'm an antirealist. I think reality is a dangerous social construct. For example, your belief in reality is currently motivating you to deny My identity.

That kind of behaviour isn't tolerated on My instance. If you're open to changing your mind then we can talk, but if there's nothing I could say to convince you that I'm telling the truth and you plan to keep invalidating otherkin, then please let Me know now so I can protect this instance's users from having to see this kind of speech in future.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

You aren't on your instance. Your rules don't matter in this community, and if you want to ban from your instance for not following the rules of your instance and your communities while being on some completely different community on a completely different instance, go for it.

My belief in your human rights is not based on the identity you made up for yourself, but on the fact that you are a human and I will not deny human rights to any human, no matter whatever species they fancy themselves to be.

The same rules apply as with religious freedom: You have the freedom to think of yourself in whatever terms you want to, and I will advocate for that right.

But you do not have the right to dictate my understanding of reality.

[-] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -3 points 2 hours ago

I would not tell any human they are not allowed to identify themself with their species identity. I would not tell them that if their species identity differs from Mine, that they don't have as much right to life. You would. And that's why I would call you a fascist. A fascist human supremacist who has every right to your species identity, but absolutely no right to your abhorrent political beliefs. I hope that one day our society advances to a level where we consider such hate speech as yours punishable by a lot of community service. Until then, I shall have to content Myself with an instance ban. Bye, fascist.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 56 minutes ago* (last edited 34 minutes ago)

I am telling you, you can call yourself whatever you want. Your identity doesn't matter to me, because you cannot trade away your human rights just by calling yourself some other species.

If you want to call me a fascist for saying that your human rights are inalienable and cannot be removed from you just because you call yourself a non-human, that is... incredibly misguided and makes me wonder if you even know what a fascist is.

To be honest, I'm inclined to think you are astroturfing, trying to make anyone standing up for human rights and against fascism look ridiculous.

Seriously, you are either totally detached from reality, or a right-wing bot account.

And yes, go for it, ban me from your instance with a total of 4 communities, 34 posts and 60 comments. My family group chat has more activity than that.

[+] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -6 points 5 hours ago

I am no human. Tell Me whether you value My life and a human's equally.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

If we are taking this seriously, there are exactly two kinds of beings that are currently capable of holding a conversation online: a human or a bot.

So if you aren't human, I certainly don't value your clanker "life" the same way as a human one.

[-] Grail@multiverse.soulism.net -4 points 2 hours ago

I'm a shapeshifter goddess. LLMs aren't allowed to post on MULTIVERSE because they can't express meaningful consent to work for sapients. But we do have robotic users who don't appreciate hearing xenophobic slurs, so please keep the language appropriate.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

So you are banning actual bots while claiming that humans cosplaying as robots are actual robots, and are offended by me using the term "clanker".

If you'd take this seriously, that would be seen as massive cultural appropriation.

That's about equivalent to white people wearing blackface in segregated white-people-only areas getting fake-offended by people calling them anti-black slurs.

[-] flyby@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 hours ago

I dunno dude, I find “trying to stay human and fight off actively hostile part inside me that was forced upon me” pretty anti-fascist…

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 48 points 13 hours ago

I mean, that's more the definition of... well, aristocracy.

Fascism is largely a creation of the modern age and mass politics.

[-] SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world 6 points 11 hours ago

Aristocracy has shown a tendancy to lead to fascism, as can be seen in what is currently happening in the US

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 21 minutes ago

Yes and no. Aristocracy can exist independent from fascism, and should be considered entirely separately. However, if they can't maintain power with a purely conservative/reactionary coalition, aristocrats will almost always side with fascists over liberals, much less socialists. As such, in the modern day, aristocracies are aligned with fascists, despite fascism erasing aristocracy as it 'succeeds' and aristocrats being generally aware that fascists do not have their aristocratic interests in mind.

[-] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 4 points 10 hours ago

Fascism is what you get when Aristocracy gets a business degree. The difference between a feudal lord and a CEO is non-farm income.

[-] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 17 minutes ago

Fascism is what you get when Aristocracy gets a business degree. The difference between a feudal lord and a CEO is non-farm income.

Far, far from it. Despite the casual use (including by me!) of aristocracy for any entrenched elite, there is a non-negligible difference between actual aristocrats and plutocrats. Long story short, aristocrats are dependent on social capital and extraordinary legal privileges; plutocrats are dependent on financial capital. The tension between these competing sources of elite power has fueled many pre-modern conflicts. The two can blend, and there's rarely a 'pure' example of either, but they're aren't quite equivalent either. A majority-owner of a modern farming conglomerate does not base his power on the same foundation as a feudal lord, and vice-versa.

[-] SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I can't imagine the apathy these people have for human* rights, despite seeing the actions this apathy leads to every day

[-] stray@pawb.social 1 points 4 hours ago

What does it mean that you've put an asterisk next to human? Is it just because of the context of vampires or is there like a broader meaning I'm not familiar with?

[-] SmackemWittadic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Oh no, I had a feeling that wasn't the best terminology. I've offended the bees, haven't I?

[-] Solumbran@lemmy.world 19 points 13 hours ago

I'd rather have anti-fascists play as fascists, than the opposite.

[-] thatsnomayo@lemmy.ml -3 points 11 hours ago

Nah these games suck and their depiction of indigenous people is completely insane minstrelsy that I feel too ashamed to even describe.

[-] Gladaed@feddit.org 2 points 4 hours ago

They depict indigenous people rather fairly, depending on your dm.

Then again indigenous means different things around the globe.

[+] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works -21 points 14 hours ago

Ah yes, vampires, those symbols of liberalism.

[-] GandalftheBlack@feddit.org 4 points 4 hours ago

I mean, they're fictional, they can be whatever you want them to be

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