114

The F-35 Debate Is Really about How We Killed the Avro Arrow | The Walrus (thewalrus.ca)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works to c/canada@lemmy.ca

17 comments fedilink hide all child comments

CANADA DOESN’T TALK about the Avro Arrow because it’s nostalgic. It talks about the Arrow because it’s unfinished business. Every time Ottawa finds itself boxed in on defence procurement, every time the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) tries to remind Canada who it thinks really owns North American air power, the Arrow reappears. It doesn’t show up as an engineering debate or a budget line. It shows up as a question of sovereignty.

Who decides what flies over Canada, who maintains it, who upgrades it, and who gets the final say when politics intrudes on defence?

Right now, that question is back on the table. Canada is reviewing whether to proceed with the full purchase of eighty-eight F-35s, having paid for only the first sixteen. Alternatives are being openly discussed. Saab’s Gripen is back in the conversation. France’s Rafale lurks on the margins. And hovering above all of it is an unmistakable warning from Washington: if Canada walks away from the F-35, the United States will “fill the gaps,” even if that means American fighters flying more often in Canadian airspace and changes to NORAD itself.

That’s why the current F-35 debate feels different. It’s not just about whether the jet is good. It’s about whether Canada is comfortable with the level of dependence that comes with it. The F-35 is not just an aircraft. It’s a system of systems. Software updates, mission data files, sustainment logistics, and upgrade pathways are all tightly controlled within an American-led ecosystem.

all 18 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] NSAbot@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago

It’s vendor lockin on a country wide scale, from a hostile vendor.

[-] GraniteM@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

The F-35 is not just an aircraft. It’s a system of systems. Software updates, mission data files, sustainment logistics, and upgrade pathways are all tightly controlled within an American-led ecosystem.

[-] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 24 points 1 day ago

Cancelling the Arrow was major mistake. Was the Arrow going to provide monetary dividends from countries buying it? Probably not. Was the nature of war changing and the Arrow wouldn't fit in the new era? Probably. Was the Arrow going to cost a lot of money? Sure.

What the Arrow would have delivered to Canada was it's own expertise and knowledge gained by building the Arrow. Maybe Canada started building it's own jets after a few generation of jets or maybe pivots to building missiles and rockets. As a middle power, building and using rockets is expensive, maybe Canada starts looking reusable rockets far earlier.

The potential possibilities would have a net boon to Canada. Instead we got the classic MBA analysis of a political program. "We're reviewing the program strictly as a monetary cost-benefit analysis. The analysis says that this is not going to benefit to Canada."

This is what most politicians seem to forgot. Investments in political programs take time to bore fruit. Yes, it's going to cost money and budgets will be overrun. However, the chance to build homegrown expertise and knowledge is far to valuable.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 day ago

The Arrow should have been cancelled, it would have been outdated by the time they finished it.

But that does not mean Diefenbacker should have shut down Avro.

But of course, name one Conservative PM who hasn't supported US interests at the expense of Canada.

[-] ergonomic_importer@piefed.ca 2 points 11 hours ago

As much as I love that airframe, I have to agree. The program was never going to be financially or strategically viable.

The largest blunder of that era was the amount of brain drain as engineers from Avro fled to the US for higher paying jobs.

[-] we_all_live_in_a_capital_i@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Read a book on the Arrow years ago that hinted that it was the only fighter at the time capable of taking out a U-2, and suggesting there was pressure from the US to destroy it so no one else could copy it. The program wasn't just cancelled. The parts were destroyed; the plans and schematics were destroyed. It was erased from existence.

[-] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 30 points 1 day ago

What happened to Canada boycotting the US? The US cannot be trusted.

[-] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

Too late, Carney already caved on the F35. Likely because this is nothing but extortion and whatever jets Canada buys really doesn't matter unless we abandon Canadian society and militarize with huge debts like the US.

In other words, become exactly like what we fear.

[-] loonmusic@piefed.ca 15 points 1 day ago

If some parts have to be ordered 15 years in advance you can not pin the purchase on a specific Prime Minister. We need to remove money from corporate donations from our political system, there should not be any influence permitted.