Nah the trick is to find something you can stand doing for 40 years to fund what you actually want to do with your time
What I want to do with my time doesn't involve whoring my best years out to some asshole I'll probably never even meet.
So better to just sit and let someone whore his life so you can just be? Indeed a shallow way to look at existence.
Nothing is fun 8 hours a day
I'm a programmer and would happily spend 8 hours doing it in my free time haha
It's nice to get paid to do something you enjoy. But it's still not as enjoyable as doing it for fun.
Plus, when you get to a certain point in some careers, especially IT ones, you don't have to work a full 8 hours straight. I can pretty much keep whatever hours I want as long as the job gets done.
Sometimes that includes overtime, but most of the time it doesn't.
I am a systems architect. I love my job, and work is the only place I can do this stuff. I don't have a million $ for hardware here.
Also, I'm paid well and the environment is great. For me, it is true, I don't "work", I do what I like. And as a german, I benefit from all the holidays, and general employee rights and protection.
Good for you! I studied computer science and afterwards I had no joy in programming anymore. I'm a data manager right now, doing data stuff and little programming which is ok. Maybe I will do a full time programming job again one day.
Yeah I actually studied games tech. So it was more focused on video games. It was a lot of fun.
We had one module that was just playing board games and then finally making one.
Computer science level stuff isn't needed for like 90% of jobs. Although I'm sure it helps.
<' laughs in therapist '>
Sigh ... can you people tell me what is your "idea of life"? Like what do you think a persons' life should look like?
I mean for a moment lets imagine that you're the only one on earth, everyone just disapeared. Your life will be pretty hard do you realize that? It'll be a constant survival, gathering food, clean water, being warm, preparing for weather catastrophes, animal attacks, insects, diseases, etc. You'll be constantly on edge whether you survive to the next day, week, year. The reason you don't have to deal with shit like that is that we have sort of functioning society where everyone takes a part, everyone specializes at something and together we achieve more and make your life super easy.
So with this in mind, back to the original question - how do you imagine your existence? Sitting down on your ass? Travel? How? Having a family? How do you feed them? Do you want them to be in constant survival mode?
Or if you like this then go. Really. Go to the woods and enjoy your life.
Or is this somehow supposed to be criticism of 9-5 office job for some billionaire? If yes then this is laughably shallow view of jobs and a society as a whole. Whith shit like this you literally shit on eneryone who does our society a better place.
4 days of work, 3 days off would be a great start.
I did 3 on 4 off. The 3rd 12hr shift was rough, but otherwise it was pretty great.
Such a rigid view of life man
Here's a crazy idea: decouple work from personal survival. People will work just as much, and live easier.
I love writing software. I write a fair amount of it, and upload it for free. And my experience is that the best way I've found of turning something you love into something you hate is to tie it to being something you have to do, and do by other people's rules. I only started liking writing code again when I moved into management and didn't have to write code for other people anymore. I was able to go back to doing it for pleasure.
So, yeah. In an ideal world, I'd be free to write and publish software, on my time. When I burned myself out, I'd switch to something else; home projects, setting up selfhost servers, maybe build a table. You can't do that when you're doing it for a living. Fuck if I know how we make that happen; I'm not an economist. And I think it's probably another couple of generations away before we could possibly get to a post-scarcity society - even assuming that we don't extinct ourselves, and that the people who could make it happen actually let it rather than greedily using it to enrich themselves.
Automation, clean energy; I think we're close to having the tech for post scarcity. I do believe this: if we freed people from defacto indentured servitude, they might turn into unproductive fat slobs like on Wall•E. Or they might become artists and artisans ushering in a new Renaissance. But I'm optimistic: we won't know until we try, and not trying because we have a low opinion of our fellow man is just callow.
Thanks for sharing this! I'm at a point in my career where I could move up to management, or I could stay on a pure tech path and start to have limited opportunities for advancement. I've also been feeling less satisfaction for my technical work lately. I've thought about looking around at other jobs, but I've been coming to the conclusion that it would be the same anywhere, because it is ultimately for someone else and most of the time either the goal of the project or the method required to get there don't align with my own goals or interests. From the bottom looking up, there's a lot about management that doesn't excite me either, but I've been wondering if it would free me up a bit to keep hobby work fun.
I'm glad to hear you were able to feel an increase in your passion about coding after moving to management and I'm hoping it can do the same for me. I'm a little weary of becoming just another cog in the system though. I'm just hoping that I can keep my current perspective in focus so I can use that to bring compassion for my reports and keep them from being burned out as long as I can.
It'd be nice to just to screw off and make my own things, but I have bills to pay. None of my hobby project ideas are money producers and even if some of them could be, I don't know that I want to pervert them by making that a goal. I feel like that would suck out the fun of them for me and put me back in the same trap I'm already in.
this reads like a capitalist propaganda leaflet that falls out of the sky for you to read in the 1940s. what if I told you that you can have a functioning society that isn't predicted on exploitation of labor and doesn't require you to live like a hermit in the forest. you should read some Adam Smith or some shit if you're going to talk about labour division and specialization as if it's a good thing. you can laud it all you want, but Smith is very clear this is a system of masters and labourers where society is built on your masters giving you just enough rent so you can afford to pay another (or even the same) master back while you and the other laborers compete against each other in a labor market while the masters watch. he even warns if you divide too much, you end up with a pile of shit. we're there now. we're a pile of shit. nobody wants to work their meaningless job that was sold to them on this capitalist American dream thought up by a bunch of anglos from 1790.
Humans are social creatures and people of all strokes in the anti work movement wish to return to a less structured, communal version of labor and survival. Starting on the premise of "you're the last person in earth" is a non-starter. It's coming from the perspective of this toxic individualism that denies people's innate desire for community and connection to others.
I'm generalizing and opinions vary widely but I think this would be a fair summary. Most want to decouple labor from survival. It is inherently coercive to be denied food and shelter on the basis of being unwilling/unable to work. Most want to divide essential labor (farming, housing, transportation, sanitation, etc.) as evenly as possible among a given population to ensure everyone is fed, sheltered and healthy. I'd type more but I'm at work and don't have the time to go into further detail.
Here's more of the "why". As for how, I don't have a handy resource right this second but I'd be happy to talk more when I can. For further reading I'd recommend that you look into degrowth, solar punk, anti-work, anarchism/ libertarian socialism, mutual aid, UBI, and social ecology. They're all pieces of the puzzle
I'd type more but I'm at work and don't have the time to go into further detail.
enough said
That's why ancient civilcations had slaves and we have bots. Yes, we are only half there. But we need to find a way, so the other half has to eat and a place to live until then.
Btw, if not for 2% possessing 90% of world wealth, average work week would be much shorter.
If your hobby can pay you a salary, then quickly you'll have to pervert it to continue to earn enough I stead of doing it "your way".
The sad thing is that I DO want to work. I WANT to go study and become a biologist and hopefully teach it someday. But, because of this fucked up system, have to do what can afford to pay rent instead of what I have been dreaming of since I was a kid.
That's the lie of capitalism: "you can be anything you want! Just as long as what you want can be easily monetized and turned into a product, otherwise you're welcome to die in a ditch you leech."
Socialism requires production just as much as capitalism, and absolutely requires people to work to their ability.
Well no duh, but it's not like the context in which that production happens – so eg. the status of the workers in relation to the "organization" doing the producing, or let alone how unemployement is dealt with – is the same.
Whther we use a monetary system, or live like or ancestor tribal groups. We need to work all our lives. The difference is that right now, most of us work longer and harder for less and lezs. The market forces argument need rebalancing
I agree with the old man. You clearly haven't truely done something you love.
I've done jobs I loved. I've been harassed, degraded, and threatened by bosses at each such job such that I suffered psychologically and eventually had to leave each job.
Bosses have gotten really bad for some reason. A manager used to mentor people and deal with communicating issues upwards. Now it seems to be entirely abusive supervision.
Bosses have gotten bad because the c-suite has metricized everything. Thirty years ago there was none of this constant NPS feedback or strongly agree/disagree surveys. You remember when the cashiers at fast food places started asking you to fill out those surveys and earn a free double whatever on your next visit? That was an executive making up one more number to justify their bloated salary at the expense of every employee beneath them in the hierarchy. These days it is all about the numbers, and the people who are best at making the numbers higher are fucking sociopaths who bring those numbers up by crushing the humanity out of people, so they float to the top like the megalomaniacal turds they are.
Ask yourself when the last time you had honest feedback directly from your boss, that wasn't veiled in three layers of web forms and paper trails designed to make it impossible for you to get a raise for the good work you were doing. For me, it was five years ago, before the pandemic, when my boss advocated for me directly to her supervisor, cut right through the shit and told them, "if you do not pay him what he's worth, we will lose him and this department will be underwater." She didn't need a meeting to tell me what my peers thought of my work and how it could be improved, like so many MBA managers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to my skillset, we worked together and when I fucked up, she let me know and showed me how to fix it, because she knew how to do the job she was asking me to do.
She left because she got tired of dealing with the CEO, son of former CEO, who thought he could charisma his way through massive failures to our partners and clients because of his incompetent leadership. He decided that the reason it didn't work was because the crew didn't read enough Patrick Lencioni new age management books, so we all got to read about the fucking Fantasyland workplace where everyone who aligns to the metrics he pulled out of his ass gets to go to corporate blowjob heaven, and also every hug between two men has to be underscored "100% NOT GAY."
I'm sorry to hear that. I guess I just need to remember to be thankful
Doing the thing I love as a job, just destroyed my hobby for me
Yeah was going to say.. if you equate what you do with slavery, you prrrooobably aren't doing something you love.
If you do something you love you'll have one less thing that you love.
Sometimes this is referred to as "grad school."
Don’t you still have to work under communism?
Yea but if you read into the fanfic you'll learn they all want to be cookie bakers and dogwalkers among other essential work
Shrug. I race cars, have a wonderful family, own a home. Could retire today. I choose not too because I do like my job AND I like money.
There is very much a way to not hate your job.
Sounds like the way to not hate your job is to be rich?
I have no problem doing work that directly benefits me like farming/hunting/building
I only have a problem doing work when it only benefits someone else who gives me a pittance of the outcome
I've found work that I love. Only problem being is it's freakin voluntary.
I dunno, most cops love beating the shit out of homeless and shooting black people… and they keep on doing it
Grandpa never said he did what he loved.
I feel like I kinda hit the jackpot with my job rn. In the US, I work at my local community college (where I'm a student as well), and I don't think I could ever make myself work for a for-profit business. I'm paid well, treated well, and most importantly, my work is meaningful to me. I happened to land a job that in the language lab (as an interpreting major), and I know that I'm working to directly benefit my community-- not to exploit customers or to be exploited for my own labor. It's bliss.
Not disagreeing with this post whatsoever, and fuck capitalism. Just wanted to go on a happy lil rant because I'm lucky enough to have a job I love in spite of it (for the time being).
if you don't learn to love a career, you'll also never learn to appreciate Las Vegas
Yeah if everyone decided to leave this wage slavery tommorow there would be much more tents in main cities . It would be like one huge ass camping trip.
Post memes here.
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Laittakaa meemejä tänne.
