5

Context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzRf8B-oDk

Would it be possible to run mpv and a browser directly on hardware somehow? Perhaps in an environment that doesn't classify as an operating system according to the definition in those California codes?

I know that an operating system distributes workloads and facilitates communication between various hardware components, but would it be possible to build a Linux kernel that is "only" an interface to the CPU, a GPU, a sound card and a keyboard? One that can take commands to run for instance a browser^[Nowadays, a browser feels like a container that can run most things a physical computer would: stream media, serve as a word processor, play simple games, what have you.] and mpv? Having the user manually - through commands of physical switches - handle the inter component communication? Or perhaps by being a kernel it already falls under the definition of an OS?

I'm just spitballing here. Barely know what I'm talking about, so please enlighten me! :D

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[-] Oinks@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 23 minutes ago* (last edited 17 minutes ago)

Theoretically you could create an appliance with just a Linux kernel, Cage and Firefox (plus dependencies) and boot that with init=cage firefox. This is how most information and advertisement displays and other kiosk systems (think of stuff like the McDonalds order machines) are made.

It would be difficult to argue that this isn't an operating system though, because typical definitions are very broad. In particular, you will always need "a program that manages a computer’s resources", and you also need "the allocation of those resources among other programs" because websites are programs (in reality a browsers will liberally fork itself to take advantage of kernel process isolation, but even if it didn't the in-process threads would still qualify).

Vendors of kiosk systems probably have better chances arguing that their devices aren't general purpose than that they don't use an operating system. However if your "kiosk" system is advertising on the basis that you can do general purpose computing within a browser then your chances of arguing that you're somehow not selling a "general purpose computing device" aren't going to be very good.

[-] aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 hours ago

The definition of OS in those laws is ridiculously broad, you can safely assume that whatever you intend to make would fall under it.

[-] CallMeAl@piefed.zip 11 points 21 hours ago

If you are concerned about the new California law it is important to point out that the California law only applies to Operating Systems vendors and providers. It does not apply to end users.

For example, if you obtain a copy of a Canadian linux distro and install and use it on your computer in California, you aren't breaking any law.

[-] Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world 5 points 21 hours ago

What you’re talking about would be called running a browser on “bare metal.” The OS is typically on charge of resource management between the various tasks. Access to the processor, storage, screen, input devices, sound, network. The os is a layer that mediates these devices. On bare metal you have to do ALL of that.

I’ve seen some interest in bare metal web servers in the past which some believe to be more secure. But I don’t think I’ve seen browsers on bare metal. There’s so much browsers need to do anymore. But anyways, bare metal would be the search terms you want to start using.

[-] SteveTech@aussie.zone 4 points 7 hours ago

The os is a layer that mediates these devices.

The OS doesn't just mediate the devices, it also provides a consistent interface for software to talk to the hardware. E.g. software doesn't care if you're using a USB or PS/2 keyboard, the operating system handles that.

I’ve seen some interest in bare metal web servers

Usually in the context of servers, bare metal means it's not running in a VM, and you are dedicated to the hardware. E.g. one server may otherwise be running multiple customers all isolated from each other using VMs, with bare metal servers you are the only customer using the hardware. They're supposedly more secure as there isn't another customer that could use some VM escape vulnerability and read your data. It's nothing to do with whether you are running an OS or not (although no OS is very not practical on production servers).

[-] emotional_soup_88@programming.dev 1 points 21 hours ago

Thanks! I'll check it out!

[-] Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 22 hours ago

There is no hard definition within the laws so this is all speculation. This means that there is no technical answer because the question in is core is a legal one.

Your TV for example can have a browser without problems.

You can have an integrated board that runs a full Linux without you being able to touch the underlying OS and let that start a browser, too. You know those tv screens that show you traffic into it flight plans at the airport? Those are often full Linux computers set up exactly like that.

In short: we'll only know when the law is actually being tested. It's written in a way that I as layman could talk and software and even most hardware into it's definition, it's absolute bullshit...

[-] emotional_soup_88@programming.dev 2 points 21 hours ago

Right. Would you say then, that trying to preemptively circumvent a yet untested law is a waste of resources and time? As in, it's better to wait and see how authorities and courts will handle and implement the law?

[-] Scipitie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

For users yes - for developers, as much as it saddens me, no.

Ubuntu for example started the discussion about what they need to do to show their the demanded effort was being put into.

It's the devs that are put at risk here - and I dare say by design. If this just correlates or is caused by the support from the big OS corporations one can only speculate. My speculation is: at the very least strongly influenced.

[-] luthis@lemmy.nz 2 points 21 hours ago

Also remember, impossibility is no excuse for noncompliance now. In the US at least.

[-] emotional_soup_88@programming.dev 2 points 21 hours ago

My country deports eight months old infants that have no roots in any other place, so, I'm familiar with the concept...

this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2026
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