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LibreOffice criticizes EU Commission over proprietary XLSX formats (www.heise.de)
submitted 2 weeks ago by throws_lemy@reddthat.com to c/technology@lemmy.world
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The Foundation sees this as a contradiction to the EU's own interoperability goals. Although XLSX is standardized as OOXML according to ISO/IEC 29500, Microsoft's implementations often deviate from the specifications. Furthermore, features often change undocumented, which complicates compatibility with open-source software such as LibreOffice.

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[-] Beep@lemmus.org 15 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The actual article— Hacker News.

And also:

The European Commission has accepted our request, and starting from today – Friday March 6 – has added the Open Document Format ODS version of the spreadsheet to be used to provide the feedback. We are grateful to the people working at DG CONNECT, the Commission’s Directorate-General for Communications Networks, Content and Technology, for responding to our request within 24 hours. At this point, the rest of this message is no longer relevant, and the call for action is no longer necessary.

[-] grue@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

"OOXML" is literally just an XML serialization of MS Office internal data structures that Microsoft bribed the standards body to push through.

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 15 points 2 weeks ago

"bribed" is a gross simplifiction of the almost hilariously evil plot they pulled to get OOXML certified. They actually bribed a couple of smaller nation states to become IETF members and vote for Microsoft's standard. It was a major scandal back in the day but formally legal.

[-] Exatron@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I remember that plot also gumming up IETF business because the bribed nations just stopped participating after voting for Microsoft.

[-] utopiah@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

It's like noticing a car crash and looking back... you know you shouldn't and yet it's somehow mesmerizing. So... where can I actually read about this please?

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

Wikipedia for a beginning: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardization_of_Office_Open_XML I remember The Register having a more detailed (and pretty snarky) article about it back then, but I didn't search for it yet.

[-] utopiah@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Ah, so niche but of course there is a great Wikipedia article for this, thank you!

I was listening to the podcase episode 318 "Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein w/ Tim Schwab" of Tech Won't Save Us thinking that honestly I had such a low esteem for Gates surely it couldn't get worst. Well, I was clearly very wrong.

Now to read this after listening to the podcast is a great example showcasing how dearly Microsoft KEEPS on fighting for its monopolistic position. It's not a "oh it just happen" kind of situation. It's a constant investment of resources in the worst kind of ways, not into making the product better, but rather this. Again, unsurprising but whenever people argue about Gates being a "good" person or how Microsoft "changed" and isn't what it was in the 2000s they are unfortunately very naive.

Anyway, digging into this, thanks again.

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

You're welcome. It was a pleasure to set someomes ideas about Mr Gates right.

[-] MisterD@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 weeks ago

FYI: it wasn't a bribe. It was a temporary takeover of the standards body. They paid for memberships of a bunch of new people on the board for the critical vote.

[-] floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago

So, a bribe with the proper bureaucratic steps?

[-] Jeffool@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

I think saying that they "bribed the standards body" suggests the body was in on it. The actual allegation (I don't know any facts, just these comments) seems to be that the body was subverted by other countries that were bribed by Microsoft. Being someone who doesn't know the details there's a worthwhile distinction there. Though that still opens questions about the board's reaction, and I might read up on it all later.

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

Let me assure you that the original board that was voting for Open Office's proposal was absolutely pissed off, short of dissolving but eventually unable to revert the decision because of it's formal correctness.

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

...and bribed the represenatives of the "new" IETF members as well as their governments to vote for Microsoft's standard. The latter was, of course, a matter strictly between "business partners" and probably barred behind NDAs, so "legal" as long as nobody would blow the wistle.

[-] CactusEcho@piefed.social 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I fully support this. This is a very easy to implement. 99% of the documents don't require specific msoffice undocumented features that odf format doesn't support

[-] Lifter@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, it would probably force microsoft to adhere to the specs if their files didn't work more users.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

or you know you could require them to comply

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 weeks ago

which complicates compatibility with open-source software such as LibreOffice.

Or any competitor. Which is why this "standard" should be declared anticompetitive.

[-] twinnie@feddit.uk 2 points 2 weeks ago

I kinda get it though. I think every single time in my life I’ve sent a document in the non-Microsoft format I’ve got a reply saying they couldn’t open it. That’s from LibreOffice and from Mac.

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

And everytime I get a document in a Microsoft format I send a reply asking if this or that is supposed to look that way or be that value. Yet it's the open format and tools that's an issue somehow.

[-] Wispy2891@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

That is supposed to be even with Microsoft office, because it changes the fonts without warning and adjusts the margins according to the default printer. It's not a format designed to be shared with other people

[-] Sv443@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

Trying to get tech illiterate people to use LibreOffice and to export their documents as PDF but they just keep sending the original files every single time... nightmare material

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

In college my professor wouldn't accept pdfs for assignments because I guess he couldn't check the metadata or make comments or something.

So I literally had to download MS office just to submit assignments in their format...

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

There are some people who míght learn from a ransomware attack. Only if it personally hits them, of course.

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 0 points 2 weeks ago

I don't know enough to understand the connection. Can you please explain?

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 0 points 2 weeks ago

Ransomware attack are successful mostly against MS Active Directory and Ourlook based setups.

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago

That's hilarious. Big corporation apparently can't afford basic cybersecurity. Always pinching pennies.

Anyway, any big organization should encrypt their core systems to prevent ransomware attacks. Individuals should too. It's just good practice.

[-] b_tr3e@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

Encryption alone won't prevent ransomware to encrypt it again. The original files need to be readable after all, so they are either unencrypted at boot or appear unencrypted to the (infected) client by machine/session key management. Nevertheless, adding an addittional, ""hostile" encryption layer will make them unreadable. The reasonable thing would be not to use a monocultural, standard setup that is known to be vulnerable to that kind of attack and first of all to get rid of fucking Outlook which has always been a dumpster fire.

[-] Imaginary_Stand4909@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 2 weeks ago

Damn, I was gonna say just use web version, but they do often have missing features compared to app, so I understand why you had to download it...

[-] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago

The web version is even worse! It's all cloud-based, and you need a subscription unless your University pays for a license.

The only reason to use it would be to write things in Libre and then copy/paste them into MS and manually fix all the formatting.

I hated it, because all the professors could just smugly say "You know you have free access to Office 365 with your student email, right?"

That's not the fucking point! I don't give a shit if it's free, I don't want to use a fucking microsoft product, especially one that's cloud-based, when there's a perfectly good open-source alternative that I can run locally on my own hardware.

Just one of the many problems with the corporatization, commodification, and enshittification of education. If the focus was on learning and academic freedom, FOSS solutions would be encouraged. But no, you're forced to use proprietary software, because "~~reasons~~" capitalism...

[-] pycorax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The web version is even worse! It's all cloud-based, and you need a subscription unless your University pays for a license.

You don't actually need a subscription for the cloud web version actually. It's ass though.

[-] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 1 points 2 weeks ago

"Don't use that proprietary format ! Use PDF instead !"

PDF is also an issue.

[-] jdr@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

Give me CSV or give me death

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 weeks ago

i will also accept LibreOffice's format for formula purposes

[-] flying_sheep@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

Death it is, CSV is horrible effectively unstandardized trash that has led to uncountable hours of efforts wasted due to subtly corrupted data through incompatible serialization settings.

It actively makes the world a worse place by existing.

[-] ranzispa@mander.xyz 0 points 2 weeks ago

CSV does not allow storing formulas, just results. It is a good format to share data, but it is not a good format to store spreadsheets which very often contain such formulas.

[-] jdr@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

Formulas are just strings, no reason you couldn't store over in a CSV.

Maybe your software doesn't want you to do that, but that's a problem with that specific software.

[-] ranzispa@mander.xyz 0 points 2 weeks ago

Do you know of any software which stores formulas in CSV?

[-] jdr@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

It's an option when saving in LibreOffice Calc.

Would be a pretty straightforward macro to (un)quote the formulas in Excel or Google Sheets etc.

this post was submitted on 08 Mar 2026
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