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Carney government joined the Conservatives and the Bloc to defeat No More Loopholes Bill that would have stopped Canadian weapons sent to the U.S. from being used in the genocide in Gaza. (mstdn.ca)

submitted 3 days ago by yogthos@lemmy.ml to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] jaselle@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

What was the rationale?

[-] DCinBC@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

Basically, the Likudnik government in Israel is a big welfare teat for the weapons industries. We the taxpayers see our money taken not to improve living conditions at home directly, but to subsidise selected harmful (weapons-making) industries by way of “aid to Israel”. Now, this helps the people who own those industries and are invested in them and work for them, but it doesn’t help the rest of us any — not like it would if it were invested in our health care system, or schools, libraries, public transit, carbon reduction.

[-] nik282000@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

Be a politicians, have friends who work in arms manufacturing.
Send aide in the form of money, taken from tax payers, to a different government.
That government uses your donated taxes to buy arms from your buddy.
Your now rich friends make your life easier with their freshly laundered money.

[-] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca 13 points 3 days ago

I'm not sure it's about "appeasing Trump", so much as "making money". Defense contracts pay well, and there is a significant portion of the Canadian manufacturing industry that relies on that income.

The unfortunate truth is, no matter who you sell weapons to, they are eventually going to be used to kill people. That's what they're for.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 15 points 2 days ago

Now imagine if all that labour and resources that go into weapons industry was instead directed towards things like building affordable housing, infrastructure, providing healthcare, and so on.

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[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 days ago

You don't see any difference in selling weapons to Israel vs selling them to Ukraine?

[-] Archangel1313@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 days ago

Technically, Canada isn't "selling weapons to Israel". We're selling weapons components to the US. What they do with that, is out of our control. If Canada wants to stop that from happening, we would need to cut off all defense contracts with the US...which would tank our entire manufacturing industry.

[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 days ago

If your industry knows the weapons it is building will most likely be used for genocide (which, considering the US is now fully fascist and at Israel's beck and call, puts the likelihood at near 100%), then I'd consider it deeply unethical to continue selling those weapons to the US.

It is not unlike IBM continuing to assist the Nazi's with their computers. Yes, saying no would be a financial hit, but like... Take the hit? It's supporting genocide otherwise. And if that industry would collapse if it decided not to support genocide, then maybe they should find a different way to make money, otherwise that industry shouldn't exist.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah. There can only be one reason. Let's not ask in case there's a second reason that doesn't help our agenda.

Did I read that right?

[-] DarylInCanada@lemmy.ca -2 points 2 days ago

Exactly how would the Canadian government be able to enforce it? The Americans will do what the Americans are going to do.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

First of all, it's the principle of not participating in a literal fucking genocide. Second, Americans can do what they want to do without Canada continuing to send weapons to them to commit atrocities. Seems like a really low bar for anybody with even a shred of moral integrity.

[-] DarylInCanada@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

It's the principle? So we just pretend, and our conscience is clear

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

We just pretend what? Seems to me that the argument you're trying to make here is if we don't facilitate the genocide, then somebody else will.

[-] DarylInCanada@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

The No More Loopholes Act was a 'just pretend' act to make it look like some MPs were doing something about it, Why? For the 'principal'? The optics? So their conscience could be clear? 'Well, we tried'. The Act was toothless, there was no way the US government would have paid it any heed. They commenced the Iranian bombing action without even warning Canadian soldiers on the US bases so they could evacuate ahead of time. Just went ahead and left our soldiers in danger. You think they would ever be choosy about the ammunition they used?

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

And yet, the fact of the matter remains that we couldn't even pass this performative and toothless act. What does that say about our government?

[-] DarylInCanada@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

That our government is pragmatic and considers that it is not worth poking the tiger on passing a frivolous act that will antagonize the US, provoke Trump into a retaliatory vendetta, yet accomplish no meaningful objective.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

It will never cease to amaze how easy it is for some people to make excuses for participating in a genocide. Saying I will not be part of a genocide is itself a meaningful objective, and if you do not understand this simple truth then you're truly lost.

[-] DarylInCanada@lemmy.ca 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I understand the pragmatics of dealing with Trump. A wise statesman picks their battles. Saying 'I will not be part of a genocide' when you can't do anything about it is hardly a meaningful objective, unless the objective is a photo op, which it appears to be in this case. In such cases, talk is useless against a madman. It rarely does anything to actually stop the genocide. But hey, if you smile for the photo op, it might convince the gullible that you are doing something.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 hours ago

The thing is, Trump will fuck Canada regardless of how many atrocities Canada signs up to do together. Just look at the Europeans bending over backwards for him, and all they get in return is abuse. Abandoning all your values to suck up to fascists is not pragmatism, it's debasement.

I'm frankly amazed that you don't realize just how psychopathic the whole argument that since we can't stop the genocide we might as well take part in it is. If you're not gonna draw the line at that, then you're no better than the fascists you're taking photo ops with.