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Seems like he's been pushed into using LLMs as a way to cope with the deluge of LLM-generated security reports.

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[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 94 points 4 days ago

Repost of my reply elsewhere:

This guy is already retired, he wants to spend his days sailing and here we are bitching about rsync not being good enough while we all use if for free

Most of us won't be able to help code, fine.

But most of us could help with translations

Many of us could help with documentation

Some of us could contribute regularly with small financial donations

Some of us might have enough knowledge and expertise and experience to help code

Others could come up with other tasks that could be done.

The point is: rsync need more resources. Either we get him more resources or we STFU about the retired dev using AI. We can't have it both ways.

[-] ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 33 points 3 days ago

I think it's unreasonable to complain that the guy is not working enough for free.

I think it's reasonable to alert people that rsync is not being properly maintained anymore and to seek alternatives.

I would prefer the maintainer to announce publicly that he can't maintain the project anymore and is looking for help/someone to take over instead of breaking the project silently.

[-] Zos_Kia@jlai.lu 17 points 3 days ago

But where will the maintainers for these alternatives come from, when barely anybody has stepped up in the 30 years of rsync's existence? Your comment implies that tridge didn't call for help before, which is far from the truth.

This is thankless maintenance on critical software, not some *-arr toy project for hobbyist self-hosters.

[-] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

But where will the maintainers for these alternatives come from, when barely anybody has stepped up in the 30 years of rsync's existence?

Universal Healthcare would increase the pool of willing developers by an order of magnitude here.

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[-] Zos_Kia@jlai.lu 10 points 3 days ago

This whole debacle is making me extremely black pilled about open software in general. Just like cheap computing has died in recent years, I suspect non corporate free software is about to meet the same end to the acclaim of people who think they're doing a good thing for the world.

[-] Grazed@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Do you mind describing what black pill means in this context? I'm familiar with the red/blue pill references, but could only find the incel context of black pill online. Is it just a "harsh truth" kinda thing?

[-] Zos_Kia@jlai.lu 10 points 3 days ago

Sorry for bringing terminally online slang to the table haha

In my head yeah it's the pill that teaches you a bleak and depressing truth but shows you no way out of it. I may be misusing the term.

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[-] deltapi@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

This is the guy who accidentally forced the creation of git, by reverse engineering the BitKeeper protocol and getting all the Linux kernel developers' licenses revoked. Chaotic Good energy.

[-] JamonBear@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

So i dug up a bit about Andrew Tridgell:

[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 16 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Hooray! It's good to see another retired dev with 40 years exp respond more eloquently than I ever can to the flood of anti-AI rage. What gets me most about the rage is the absolutism - the flat assumption that anyone who uses AI is either stupid or evil. Period. There's almost no genuine engagement on the topic, mostly just angry shouting. But you see that a lot online - some people think social media is Fight Club.

[-] fodor@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago

If you read through the comments here you'll see a ton of nuanced comments, I think undercutting your claim. At the same time, this is also an interesting issue because you're trying to play the centrist role. But on this issue there is no centrist role, and actually you've just played the pro AI role while pretending you didn't do that.

Because think about what happened. The developer used AI and it introduced bugs and that was bad for people. These are the facts. So the people are saying hey can you stop using AI and the developer is shrugging their shoulders.

What's the middle ground that you're looking for here? Recognizing that it's possible to use AI harmlessly? But that's not what happened. If it had been harmless used then no one would have brought up the issues in the first place.

[-] Kissaki@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago

The developer used AI and it introduced bugs and that was bad for people.

Was it the AI that introduced bugs, or them, while working with AI there or in other parts?
Would the bugs not have occurred if they made the changes without AI?
Would they have made any changes without AI? Would we be better off without changes for security robustness?

You make it sound like a direct correlation. Having read their response, that seems like an assumption without reasonable foundation.

Changes always have a risk of introducing bugs.
I'm no friend of using AI without the necessariy expertise, but from their response, they seem to have taken a very thorough, reasonable approach, and they seem to have the expertise to do so.

[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

When I rant about polarization of AI discussions I'm talking about on social media generally, not this one remarkably civil thread. But even your use of the term "roles" is doing it - you're assigning black hats and white hats to the participants instead of focusing on what they're saying.

Speaking of which, where do you get the idea that the author introduced bugs by using AI? He says that in his work to improve rsync by beefing up test suites, integration testing etc he used AI to do grunt work, and thoroughly reviewed every bit of it. He explains this very clearly, and I don't see the part where his use of AI created more bugs.

I am pro-AI - I'm interested in its development and looking forward to it getting better. What we have right now can be very useful, but it's kind of like 1980s 8-bit graphics video games. It hallucinates too often and is unconscionably resource-heavy. I'm very much against its overdeployment and misuse. Companies are charging into implementing AI like middle school boys who just figured out how to find free porn. They see it as yet another magic wand to reduce headcount - which is their endless quest. But blaming AI itself for this is like blaming a saw for wasting lumber or for not being a better saw. Blame shitty carpenters who use it wrong.

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[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 28 points 3 days ago

Seems like he’s been pushed into using LLMs as a way to cope with the deluge of LLM-generated security reports

It's not just LLM generated security reports, but vulnerabilities discovered by AI. Your wording implies they were just reports, and of less validity. Lazy LLM reports are not what he is trying to cope with, since there is nothing to do but close those reports. He is talking about real, verified, vulnerabilities that weren't discovered until AI tools. Not because humans couldn't find them, but none ever did. When it comes to finding, it really doesn't matter if it's found by human or AI, since that doesn't change its existence or severity.

[-] Theoriginalthon@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

And the side that noone else talks about, threat actors are highly likely to be using ai to find these potential vulnerability. So you you are not doing the same you are immediately at a disadvantage

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[-] iglou@programming.dev 26 points 3 days ago

I used AI tools to do the grunt work because they are good at that.

This is something people complaining should remember. AI is good at some parts of the work of a software engineer: the grunt work.

[-] wewbull@feddit.uk 26 points 3 days ago

People pointing at new breakages are trying to say "No it isn't and here's the proof".

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[-] Kissaki@programming.dev 88 points 4 days ago

Also, nobody actually knows if human intelligence is just finer grained stochastic prediction as well.

An interesting but valid argument. It doesn't make AI better than it is, but any human contribution and change can and often is also faulty. People have gaps of knowledge, sometimes unwarranted confidence, other times lack of care, or just miss things. It's not like we're comparing the perfect human vs faulty AI.

If you don’t mind the security risk then you can of course use an older release.

I haven't read the original rage/drama but I can imagine if from other drama instances.

This post is certainly a good, founded response.

There's some valid concerns in AI usage, but unwarranted or inappropriate harsh criticism when it's an established trusted developer and engineer - if we assumed good practice before then we could assume continued good practice. Maybe LLM is one point of increasing skepticism, but criticism should be open, respectful, and fair.

They invested a lot of time and effort into a public good project. In that context, they deserve at least respectful and non-worst-assumptuous criticism.

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[-] Mikina@programming.dev 42 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I can't wait for companies to finally price out most of developers out of AI use, especially the FOSS ones.

I just hope most of them won't get too addicted to the tech crack they are getting free/cheap samples of currently, and will be able able to find back their motivation and skill to work without a feel-good dopamine machines.

Also, lol at all the coments being like "if you're 100% against the tech crack, you're delusional. The cat is already out of the bag, it makes you way better at coding, if you use it responsibly!"

The problem isn't that it's not somewhat good, the issue is that soon you won't be able to afford it, while also being addicted and dependant on it. But I'm sure y'all are able to use crack responsibly and will be fiiine.

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[-] slacktoid@lemmy.ml 44 points 4 days ago

I've said this before and I'll say it again. If an established dev uses AI and you don't want that? Then get involved.

[-] VitoRobles@lemmy.today 27 points 4 days ago

Yep. All the bitching is exhausting.

Talk is cheap. Send contributions or fuck off.

[-] binux@sh.itjust.works 27 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Well rsync is a pretty integral utility for a whole array of software at this point, and I guarantee you that not all of its userbase has the expertise required for direct contributions. I don't think it's fair to write off the complaints of people like that as irrelevant, especially if they have a stake in rsync working well for them without having to worry about AI hallucinations screwing them over.

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[-] valar@lemmy.ca 58 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I hate when AI people say "things are so different in just the past few weeks, what you know from last year is meaningless" without specifying what's so groundbreaking that us regular folks wouldn't be able to comprehend. It just seems like a way to shut people up and feel superior.

[-] waldfee@feddit.org 41 points 4 days ago

Or alternatively "You're just prompting it wrong"

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[-] ooterness@lemmy.world 32 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

The whole rsync repo is 65k lines total. Recent AI-centric changes account for +16k/-6k, including massive changes to the unit tests. Somehow that's not even considered a "minor" update (v3.4.1 to v3.4.3).

That's not responsible use of AI, that's malpractice.

[-] onlinepersona@programming.dev 3 points 2 days ago

Do better then. Where's your contributions?

[-] ooterness@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I am the primary author of an open-source framework for Ethernet in embedded systems. There is not a single line of fucking AI slop in that repo, because I am not an irresponsible hack.

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[-] ikidd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

Then get on your IDE and lend them a hand. Then the retired guy that's asked for help several times in the last decade unsuccessfully wouldn't have to buy tokens to get help.

Seems like most people want to spend their effort getting on their high horse instead of being the change they want to see.

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[-] exu@feditown.com 45 points 4 days ago

He makes some fair points. However I do think the large amount of regressions in 3.4.3 should have resulted in a new release rolling back those changes.

I still like the response of the libxml2 maintainer, where any vulnerability will be disclosed openly and fixed when it's ready. Maybe more open source projects currently drowning in CVE should take that stance instead of their maintainers burning themselves out over it.

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 34 points 4 days ago

I think there would be a lot less drama around this if authors were just up-front about how they use AI. Put it in your readme, just like you do with licenses.

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this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2026
263 points (96.8% liked)

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