Putin is a PoS too, but receives critical support due to Russia fight against imperialism.
Is this really where we're at? I've seen like five like this on here just today. Where are these wildly extreme views coming from? I need actual sources that are not simply other memes.
But these articles indicate that neo-nazis are involved. I read that as they are present, but they are not representative. This is like saying that all of USA are pedophiles because of their orange-faced, democratically-elected, and still-in-power leader...
I read that as they are present, but they are not representative
https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/news/zelensky-names-commando-unit-after-wwii-nazi-collaborators/
How many times do they have to all but come out and say we support Nazis before it becomes representative?
There were Jewish Nazi collaborators you fucking idiot they're not mutually exclusive. Also nice job showing everyone you lack the capability to respond you fucking child. Answer the question how many times do they have to come out and give honors to Nazis and Nazi collaborators before it's representative?
Average pro banderite government turbolib:
Your question is invalid. You want a clear, partisan response that reinforces a myopic world view. I talk to you like an insolent child because you act like one. The reality of the situation in Ukraine is far more complex than a few journalists, buzz-terms, or a few memes can encapsulate. You don't actually want discussion or debate. You want to believe you spotted something that few others have. I think you're missing about 99% of the detail required to help you form a question that I actually would be interested in engaging.
Thank you for the word salad you massively arrogant idiot. The answer for most people is 1. If Amerika, Germany, France etc decided to name a military division after a Nazi division or rebury Nazis/Nazi collaborators with state honours every reasonable person would be able to point and say this is a problem that needs fixing. The fact that you have a hatred of Russia is not allowing you to see it in this case. I'm not asking you to be pro Russia simply to realise that modern Ukraine has an issue (which it very clearly and well documented does).
You want to believe you spotted something that few others have.
No it's really well documented hence all the links you idiot.
Also "oh it's so complex they really had to do all these pro nazi things" is cope for idiots. Grow up you petulant child.
I actually would be interested in engaging.
All you're clearly interested in doing is prostrating before Nazis in Ukraine for being anti Russia.
So you're calling me a Nazi? This is proof of Godwin's law. Let me try and dumb-down my position a bit for you...
Does the Ukraine itself have a chequered past with allegiences going east and west over time? Yes.
Is it clear that Ukraine have recruited the help of some highly questionable groups? Yes.
Does that make them representative of those groups? No.
Are they doing this because they're in an extremely challenging position with limited options? Yes.
Would I do the same if I was in a similar position? Perhaps...?
Does this short list come close to fully summarizing the situation in Ukraine? Not at all.
I didn't call you a nazi? Why are you incapable of responding like a reasonable person? I'm not trying to summarise Ukraine's entire situation I'm pointing to a single well documented issue that runs from the head of the country right down to the boots on the ground of them having an issue with honouring Nazis (which is again extremely well documented). This is clearly an issue as would be rightfully pointed out if it was happening anywhere else. The fact you keep caping for deflecting and trying to act like it's something that it's not is just fucking idiotic.
If the head of government is constantly doing things to please and appease Nazis and Nazi collaborators how unrepresentative could they possibly be they clearly hold some major political sway. Which is an issue that needs fixing not handwaving and appeasement.
No, I'm wondering what genuine options Zelensky has. It strikes me that he's not in a position to make well balanced decisions. If he doesn't recruit the help of these Nazis than what would be the reality for his campaign against the Russian invaders and pro-Russians in his country? Is there evidence that Zelensky has recruited the help of these Nazis because he genuinely, and wholeheartedly supports their policitcal aims? These would be kind of questions that would be asked in court. I think it's reasonable to look at a few memes and articles and believe the full picture is still much deeper.
Ok so these Nazis hold enough political sway that the head of government has no choice but to please and appease them and yet you continue to say they are not representative and not an issue? Do you even hear yourself?
Also I'm not making any judgement off just memes and articles but off studying the conflict since it began in 2014 (which you clearly haven't given how you're approaching this and some of the reprehensible shit you're saying in endorsing the banderite campaign against ethnic Russians)
I do continue to say it. Are pedophiles representative of the USA? They voted one in and still have him there after the abundant evidence that he contributed to the abuse and trafficking of girls and underage young women. I'll agree that Nazis are representative of Ukraine if you agree that pedophiles are representative of good ol' 'Murica.
Yes I would. Pedophiles and murders are absolutely representative of the US government lmao you don't think they are? Amerika has been the most evil empire on earth since 1949.
Ah, OK. I rolled the dice on that one. Didn't realise you would so easily agree. I think I see that we just have different views on whether a country represents the ideals of one or a smaller number of actors, whether or not they have made their way to the higher echelons of government. It's clear that we're not going to see eye to eye on this. Thanks for the exchange though.
I'm not thankful you've been nothing but an aggressive petulant child caping for Nazis because you hate Russia.
That's fair. To be honest I started with the theory that you were a bot or some pro-Russian propaganda tool. Now I believe you're human I'd like apologise for the aggression. You didn't deserve that.
pro-ukraine/pro-NATO bots outnumber pro-Russia bots at about a ratio of 10:1 by the way, even per western sources. It's way more likely that any liberal pro-western person you talk to online is a bot than a "tankie" commie will be. Bots don't tend to take extremely unpopular positions like communism, communists do. they try to fit in and act 'normal', they don't die on principled hills. they also tend to target large userbases like on reddit or youtube, not tiny little lemmy subforums with 10 readers
Where are you getting your information for this? I'm not about to take this idea onboard cause some guy on the internet told me and he really sounded like he meant it.
In the English language community, there are 100,084 nodes and 573,885 edges, where there are 57.72% pro-Ukraine bots, 31.58% pro-Ukraine humans, 7.49% pro-Russia bots, and 3.21% pro-Russia humans
7.5 : 1 ratio, not 10:1, sorry for the slight mistake there.
Credit where credit's due. That is a source. Just not quite for what I understand you are stating. This study was published in 2025, and used an internal Chinese university funding source in the year 2023/4. It is exclusively looking at Twitter (X) and Reddit posts about the Bucha massacre which took place in April 2022.
You appear to have taken elements of this study and are extrapolating it to reinforce a unilateral world view for all time that bears little association with the original research.
I ask you to note that genuine scientific research always starts from a position of openness to new information. This would be true if the study was repeated for a new topic today.
We're back to 9:1, should have taken the 7.5:1
Again, this is 2022. And again is exclusively looking at hash tags on Twitter. Here's the actual source https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-19097-1_3
What genuine conclusions can we reach here? That Ukraine is heavily appealing to the west for support? That's a widely known fact.
Does this activity validate Russia's position, and can we assume they aren't engaged in propaganda on VK or other social networks more popular in their country? No!
It's also widely known that Russia's challenge is convincing their country to send their sons to war. That's going to put a massively different spin on the nature of the propaganda and where it can be found.
Even if I concede your bot ratio argument. The bottom line here is that I'm staggered by the opinions so easily found here, and I'm doing what I can to test various theories I have to understand what's actually going on. So far I've been shown nothing genuinely surprising or new, except for the wild interpretations of much more sober facts.
it means you are being manipulated, what you believe is the 'mainstream opinion' on Ukraine is warped by legions of CIA and Nazi controlled bots. Bots that you didn't even notice existed until pointed out to you with hard facts, despite them being 9 times more prevalent in shaping your worldview than any 'russian bot' which has no influence on you whatsoever. I'm asking you to look inward and look at all the propaganda you've swallowed and gain some recognition of how biased you are.
Liberals always call anti-imperialists 'brain-washed' or 'bots' or 'swallowed the propaganda' but the irony is they swallow ten times more without question, not even realizing they are propagandized. The best propaganda is invisible, the one being manipulated doesn't even realize it is happening. It is the western Liberal world that is the most brainwashed, disconnected from reality and completely controlled by their media and government.
Yeah, OK buddy. You can tell yourself that, but you have no idea what I know. So I'll hang on my western liberalism just now. Ta.
I know exactly what you know because it's the default load out for Liberals, you've downloaded the Liberalism 1.0 infopack from western media and reddit and believe the most basic ass, default ideology. I know it inside and out and all the ways it is wrong and lies.
Here's some truth nukes for you that completely dismantle your entire worldview:
NATO is an offensive imperialist alliance originally staffed almost entirely by actual ex-Nazi officers. This is a fascist, imperialist alliance that absorbed Nazism and promoted it in South Korea and Japan as well, placing Axis collaborators into power over the victims of WW2. They created a genocide in Indonesia which killed over a million innocent people, slaughtered by fascists placed by the US. Your government has spent the last 60 years spreading fascism internationally and overthrowing over 50 democratically installed governments. Ukraine in 2014 is one such example, where pro-Nazis, the children of collaborators who uphold the holocaust, were installed into power. You didn't know any of this, you don't accept its implications. You keep thinking you are the "good guys" or at least "just as bad as the other side". It's not true, you are in the fascist axis. Everything your nation touches turns into fascist shit because you are fascist shit underneath the money and ideology that cushions it and hides it. The best thing you could do for the world is to turn inward and never once get involved in anything international ever again, because everything your nation touches turns fascist.
Israeli genocide is done in complete complicity with the western Liberal world. If you are a proud western Liberal, you are a proud Israeli genocide apologist. Israel is pure distillation of the "judeo-christian democratic values" that you uphold.
You really are a twisted one. Good luck out there buddy. You're going to need it.
one day you might evolve and escape your default Liberalism and gain a real consciousness
Yah I think these are some weird propaganda attempt.
It's very odd. I'm trying to work out if its pro-Russian activists hijacking a largely unregulated and slightly obscure social networking platform or if it's just extremist lefties who've gone so far to left they've gone around the back and reappeared on the far right! Either way the absence of (or presence of shit) moderators is noticeable here...
Marxist-Leninists typically critically support the Russian Federation for it's progressive role in opposing imperialism, presently spearheaded by the United States and secondarily from the broader west, such as the UK, France, Germany, and the various settler-colonies and imperialist coalition groups. Lemmy.ml has always had MLs.
This all sounds lovely, but I'm struggling to see Russia's role in opposing imperialism following their repeated incursions into Ukrainian territory and the more recent full-blown military invasion and the subsequent war. I understand imperialism can be summarised by one nation ruling or attempting to rule over another. How does Russia's actions with Ukraine represent a "progressive" role in opposing it?
Ukraine got couped by the US in 2014, the current government is a puppet installed specifically as a staging point for US procy warfare against Russia, they're completely justified in responding to a direct threat right on their border.
For that you'd need to recognize the people in donbas as humans.
As long as you don't, you won't understand.
When iran fights against genocide in palestine, when russia fights against genocide in donbas, the most important parallel between those two is that the burgerlanders' lackeys are the genociders.
I'm genuinely asking for information here. You talk as though my lack of understanding is some kind of position I choose to maintain. There are very few cases in which I would choose to dehumanise anyone. Except for perhaps the most extreme incidents of violent crime.
I'm someone who wants to learn what you know. Tell me.
Downvoted for asking an open question. I'm sensing extremism is lurking... XD
Just because the US is fucking evil doesn't mean that their enemies are good.
The British, the US, and the USSR all fought the Nazis.
Ukraine is run by Banderites that openly celebrate Nazi collaborators, so the meme is pretty apt.
It means that their enemies are fighting fucking evil. Don't you want people to fight fucking evil? Or would you rather the people fighting fucking evil lose to the fucking evil?
Either way evil is winning, so I'd rather the evil that is attacking to lose. I would rather the evil that is currently pushing innocent people out of their country to not be doing that anymore.
So then you want the US to lose? Or are you limiting all of your thinking to this one specific location and time? Because if you want the attacker to lose, then you want the US to lose. Since 1992, the US has attacked over 14 countries. Russia has attacked 3, all of them border conflicts. The US is the attacker, pushing people out of their countries all over the world.
And let's be very clear here. The Russians see this as a proxy war with the US. The US sees this as a proxy war with Russia. Both sides have said so. Ukraine doesn't deserve to be a US proxy, because US proxies get shredded in the name of advancing the interests of the US.
Why yes, I do consider the US to also be a great evil. I do hope they and Isreal lose in Iran and Lebanon.
Right, so, in the case of the proxy war between the West (helmed by the US) and Russia, it also makes sense that we want the US to lose in Ukraine. Not because in that case the US fired the first shot and crossed the border, but be sure the conflict is fundamentally predicated on US hegemony and the fight against it. Ukraine is only still at war because the West is pumping billions of support into it. And the West only does that to support its own interests. If Ukraine had lost after their 3rd complete military loss, instead of more and more tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, training, mercenaries, and logistics being pumped in to prolong the conflict, there would have been far more peace and far less destruction. Ukraine needs to lose for the US to lose.
I'd rather the staunch ally of Israel and the one oppressing minority ethnicities in the Donbass region not be doing that any longer. I also wish that it no longer plays a similar geopolitical role as Israel, as a forward outpost for western imperialism to force neighboring countries into bending the knee.