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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by BidensGranddaughter@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net

Half a mil to put their thumbs up their asses instead of just literally giving that money directly as reparations jokerfied

Edit: I want to clarify, I fully support reparations, I'm just extremely frustrated knowing that, under liberal/bourgeoisie democracy, these types of efforts tend to get bogged down with means testing, and sometimes outright turn into thinly-veiled handouts to private corporations. All while the police budget is still increasing YOY.

That said, Evanston (city on Chicago's northern border) did actually manage to distribute "...$25,000 in no-strings-attached direct cash payments for those eligible. Black residents who lived in Evanston during a 50-year period of discriminatory zoning laws and their direct descendants receive priority for eligibility." So I don't want to encourage further reactionary criticisms such as mine towards this specific subcommittee if they are able to achieve at least some form of direct payments similar to Evanston's program.

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[-] VILenin@hexbear.net 25 points 1 year ago

inb4 they pocket the money and go “we’ll meet again next year to finish this”

[-] BidensGranddaughter@hexbear.net 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

~~No that's literally what they're doing~~

Ald. Stephanie Coleman (16th Ward), the chair of the Chicago City Council’s Black Caucus, said the subcommittee is likely to be part of the City Council’s Committee on Contracting Equity and Oversight, which is led by Ald. Emma Mitts (37th Ward). That panel will meet for no more than a year, and then transition to a full commission, Coleman told WTTW News.

Edit: I'm going to go back on this specific criticism, as has been pointed out by other commenters, this committee has voiced their intentions to model their program after Evanston, which began with means-testing assistance but had a 2nd phase which instituted "$25,000 in no-strings-attached direct cash payments for those eligible. Black residents who lived in Evanston during a 50-year period of discriminatory zoning laws and their direct descendants receive priority for eligibility."

There's still plenty to criticize around the inefficiencies and contradictions of reparation attempts under liberal democracy, but I don't want to direct my ire at efforts that actually accomplish some material benefit, at least if and until they demonstrate failure. In other words, we should agitate these efforts to do it correctly, and clown on them if they end up with some means-tested liberal nonsense, but not clown on them for attempting it all.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

How does this imply they are pocketing the money and doing no work?

This is a major city taking a concrete step towards reparations and we're making unfounded criticisms that could be ripped right from reddit-logo

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago

How do people think you go from supporting reparations as a concept to actually cutting checks and deciding who gets what? Are the people doing the work to get from concept to execution supposed to work for free?

This is what running a government looks like. Absent a specific critique about why this amount isn't needed, the takes objecting to this are just the reactionary "any dime the government spends on anything other than the end product is pure waste."

[-] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

I will believe this the minute I see this process resulting in >$500k being given as reparations. Unfortunately creating a committee to study an issue is from a well-established playbook of stringing people along.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

"I'll believe the government can do good when I see it" is a core reactionary idea. Its another strain of brainworms we have to purge from ourselves if we're going to sell people on a system of government that we think should directly provide housing, healthcare, education, jobs, solutions to climate change, etc.

Really, how else would you go from concept to execution? Committes can be used to string people along, but they're also how you make big decisions in big organizations. Skepticism is warranted, but calling this nothing until the checks clear is not.

[-] oktherebuddy@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

This is a government that exists within bourgeois capitalist democracy, aka a government run by the capitalists. Specifically since it's a municipal government it's run by real estate developers. Thinking that electing someone with specific beliefs will alter the forces shaping the trajectory of that government is, itself, brainworms.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

Good things occasionally do come out of capitalist democracy, though -- look at the reparations being paid right now in Evanston.

Understanding the flaws of capitalist democracy does not mean that style of democracy never ever ever does anything but harm. This is the appeal of liberalism -- you get occasional carrots, and all better options are snuffed out, so do you want the carrot or do you want nothing? The socialist criticism of that is that it'll never be enough, and will turn to fascism in a hearbeat; it's not that those carrots do not exist.

[-] BidensGranddaughter@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's a fair point, it's just hard to not be pessimistic when the same city is still spending $2 billion on their police budget and $29 mil to a private company for tents to house migrants (instead of just expropriating some unoccupied office buildings).

I'm not against spending large amounts of time, effort, and money on planning and executing reparations, I just have very little confidence that it can be done under liberal democracy without it turning into some market-based, means-tested program that is most certainly not reparations, all while other systems of harm are still being funded by several higher orders of magnitude. I will word my criticisms better in the future so as not to come off like I'm criticizing the very idea of planning and distributing reparations.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

Skepticism is warranted, but there are reparations being paid right now 45 minutes down the road in Evanston. It's not a pipe dream; there's an actual working example right there.

We talk a lot here about how social programs in the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries served as an immediate example of how things could be done better, and how that pressured capitalist countries to make concessions in the same direction. Reparations programs can work the same way. We've seen this effect with LGBT rights and marijuana legalization recently, too.

Salary and benefits for a 3 person team with a lawyer consulting will eat that up in a year easily.

[-] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

Photo of the reparations committee in session

[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

LMAO, yes! this is literally the first thing that came to mind.

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

there are valid questions about who gets reparations but yeah thats insane. edit im undeleting my comment because i needs to be said.

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also it's kinda wild of the libs to look at the current situation of various minorities and think that "ah yes, we need official documents linking you to a slave ancestor" rather than just helping people without means testing. Because that's usually what the liberals are trying to do, it can be obvious that you had slaves in your family, but if you don't have the papers they get off on denying due to technicality. I've read through most reparations resolutions and it's depressing

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

i think the NAACP had a good solution https://naacp.org/resources/reparations

"Reparations would involve a national apology, rights to the cannabis industry, financial payment, social service benefits, and land grants to every descendant of an enslaved African American and Black person a descendant of those living in the United States including during American slavery until the Jim Crow era. 1965. Because slavery involved kidnapping, barbarism, and the stripping of language, culture and heritage, many Black people are unaware of their specific African heritage and which country in fact their ancestors were stolen from. The forged documentation, lack of documentation or non-existent documentation, from birth certificates to slave manifest, be it resolved that eligibility for these reparations requires the following: people that were born in the United States or naturalized citizens that have noted their Black heritage on the census, identify as Black on their birth certificate and/or have documentation of enslaved parentage in the United States, documentation of parentage residing in the United States prior to and during the Jim Crow era, and currently identify as Black American or African­ American. Identification of African-American heritage is both a biological and physical representation of being African-American on a daily basis."

and yes means testing is stupid. black does not equal poor, were the Japanese internment camp prisoners means tested? were the italians?? was anyone else??

rights to the cannabis industry

Ruining the tobacco industry’s plans to monopolize cannabis is reason enough to implement this alone. Eat shit Marlboro.

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

i also hate how in this discourse that there are currently 2.3 million black people in prison and many are being used for literal legally defined slave work and that it never gets brought up. they act like its so long ago but its literally happening right now. especially when labor is used as a punishment of a crime, its so fucked to keep pressing the profit button once someone has 'fixed' what they broke. im talking theft-based and possession felonies that get you in jail for 10-15 years but 10-15 years of labor is way more money and harm than the crime itself. and thats not even getting into labor trafficking from countries like haiti or the fact that jim crow would result in situations that were basically just slavery....

have noted their Black heritage on the census

identify as Black on their birth certificate

im really worried about this bit, i know it was common in the czech community in america to hide that we were czech to avoid anti-slav discrimination. i even have talked to czechs that were forced to live in certain districts because they identified as czech on naturalization papers, it was generally recommended to identify as austrian or german because they got off easier. theres got to be edge cases for white-passing/mixed ancestry black people. i also recall some movements in the 70s demanding everyone to say 'rather not say' on ethnicity forms or not fill out ethnicity so as to avoid geographic racial profiling. i wish we didnt have such a shitty government so we could have actual scientific socialist studies on how to get reparations to everyone effected with no one being left behind. i honestly wonder what cuba has done in this field, i cant say im well-versed on afro-cuban history. i do know china has had some really extensive reparations policies to certain ethnic groups, but that is a very different setting.

[-] Othello@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

honestly wonder what cuba has done in this field

they did not have reparations but they addressed the disparity it in other ways , but you have to consider that cuba is not the richest country in the world and they had to do what best fit their revolution. with the committees for the defense of the revolution. but every country is different and this has been a long held demand. you should watch one way or another sometime lol i was watching it with ving the other day and they said it was the most dialectical movie they had ever seen but im just rambling about a movie it like . but to your other points ill just sumise to say there will never be a 100% perfect solution and the theoretical of what to do changes based on whether or not we are talking about this happening under a socialist or capitalist society. i have my own personal thoughts on both scenarios (and the likelihood of them) but as i type this im getting too high to think.

TTYL kristina

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

but as i type this im getting too high to think.

i aspire to this rn thanks for the great idea

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"ah yes, we need official documents linking you to a slave ancestor" rather than just helping people without means testing

The one city I know of that has actually started reparations payments -- Evanston -- is tying them to redlining and other discriminatory policies in Evanston and in the 20th century. I don't think it's means tested, either; it's not based on need, but on if recipients are "descendants of Evanston residents who lived in the city between 1919 and 1969 or suffered housing discrimination after 1969."

[-] kristina@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

that seems pretty good, but do they need to currently reside there, or does it go to everyone including people that left the city? also isnt that the one othello was talking about as not being enough

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

The way I read it is that someone would be eligible if they currently live in (for example) Chicago, but their parents lived in Evanston between 1919 and 1969 or suffered housing discrimination after 1969. This seems like exactly the sort of wheels-on-the-pavement question you'd need to talk through in a committee before rolling this out, too.

And yeah, I'd agree this isn't enough, but a city trying to repair the part of the damage it did specifically seems like a significant step in the right direction.

I’m so glad the USSR didn’t take OP’s approach of “planning Schmanning, we’ll ignore it because overhead is wasteful.” You can spend a lot up front and it’ll be costly but might actually happen and even finish somewhat on time, or try to save up front and never end up finishing and wasting a colossal amount of labor and resources.

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

Pop open a thread about the USSR or the PRC and you'll find plenty of people praising central planning and the role it played in rapid economic development, and you might also find critiques that amount to "you should have better examined the effects of trying to eradicate sparrows."

It's OK to be skeptical of government power, waste, and corruption, but deep cynicism about government ever being able to do anything right is a core reactionary belief.

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[-] InevitableSwing@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

This is the way lib world ends
This is the way lib world ends
This is the way lib world ends
Not with a bang but a subcomittee.

[-] Buchenstr@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

I disagree, the new mayor actually seems willing to provide the basic apologies as reparations. It doesn't matter how much it costs as long as it is done.

Plus his general spending plan for Chicago 2024 seems to be very decent, he's an alright guy from what I can see.

decent except for his pledge not to defund the police. up 3%

[-] privatized_sun@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

PMC parasites lol

this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2023
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