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submitted 11 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

In audio intercepts from the front lines in Ukraine, Russian soldiers speak in shorthand of 200s to mean dead, 300s to mean wounded. The urge to flee has become common enough that they also talk of 500s — people who refuse to fight.

As the war grinds into its second winter, a growing number of Russian soldiers want out, as suggested in secret recordings obtained by The Associated Press of Russian soldiers calling home from the battlefields of the Kharkiv, Luhansk and Donetsk regions in Ukraine.

The calls offer a rare glimpse of the war as it looked through Russian eyes — a point of view that seldom makes its way into Western media, largely because Russia has made it a crime to speak honestly about the conflict in Ukraine. They also show clearly how the war has progressed, from the professional soldiers who initially powered Vladimir Putin’s full-scale invasion to men from all walks of life compelled to serve in grueling conditions.

“There’s no f------ ‘dying the death of the brave’ here,” one soldier told his brother from the front in Ukraine’s Kharkiv region. “You just die like a f------ earthworm.”

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[-] vzq@lemmy.blahaj.zone 97 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

We need to be careful extrapolating this to general trends, because the ones doing the intercepting (likely the SBU/Ukrainian intelligence) decide what to release. This is not a random sample.

I have no reason to doubt the intercepts are real, but I do wonder about the content of all the other intercepts that are not released.

[-] theodewere@kbin.social 40 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

no you're right, i'm sure there are places where the Russian soldiers are having a great time and not dying like dogs

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[-] ivanafterall@kbin.social 13 points 11 months ago

It's a general enough trend that they needed to create a special code for the phenomenon.

[-] c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

I'm sure they had the code already, the fact that the US has "section 8" doesn't mean they're all going crazy.

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[-] rbos@lemmy.ca 39 points 11 months ago

Seems like every generation has to learn the Old Lie again and again.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/46560/dulce-et-decorum-est

[-] interceder270@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

I can't help but think most soldiers realize it's a load of bullshit when they're choking on their own blood.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 6 points 11 months ago

Soldiers realize it well before then. The VFW is a club that hopes it withers away from lack of new members.

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[-] tillimarleen@feddit.de 9 points 11 months ago
[-] rammer@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 months ago

Thank you for sharing this. I don't read much poetry, much less in German. But this kept me on the edge of my seat.

[-] idiomaddict@feddit.de 4 points 11 months ago

Jesus Christ. The first one was beautiful and terrible. This was just naked horror (though part of that was that I’m not a native German speaker, so phrases like “blood-shod” in the first poem might have flown over my head in the second one), but I think it might be more effective for it. I also like that it addresses the populace, more than the politicians/potential soldiers.

[-] tillimarleen@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago

Interesting! It‘s the opposite with me, I am not a native English speaker, and I actually didn‘t understand blood-shod. They limp and have blood in their shoes? The pictures that came to my mind reminded me of the Borchert poem. It felt like the adequate reply. I love it for the explicit message: Sag Nein! The horror at its end I find just as horrifying as the Owen poem. Back to back, and we have snapshots of the horrors of WWI, WWII and WWIII.

[-] idiomaddict@feddit.de 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Shod is basically an archaic form of “shoed,” so it’s soildiers who have worn through their boots and are walking just on blood.

I agree that they’re both incredibly moving and horrifying. I think “Sag Nein!” Reflects the perspective of the German postwar generation on communal guilt, whereas the other is more of an attack on politicians. It seems fitting, based on the wars involved, especially because they’re both calls to action, rather than simply condemnations.

[-] Goodman@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 11 months ago

That was a tough read in both ways.

[-] theodewere@kbin.social 19 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Russia must be a wonderful place to wake up in the morning.. what an amazingly joyful, wonderful place it must be.. that must be why so many intelligent people have fled for the nearest border..

Russia, the land of earthworms

[-] dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 11 months ago

I see nothing has changed then since early 2022.

[-] nucleative@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

If this was obtained and released by Ukraine, it is a type of propaganda. It might be true, but it's definitely designed to further erode the spirit of any Russian listener and bolster the Ukrainian side.

Here's Vietnam propaganda trying to get US soldiers to give up: https://people.duke.edu/~ng46/collections/propaganda/vietnam-to-us/LEAFLET%20North%20Vietnam%20Whats%20in%20Washingtons%20War%201%20600h.jpg

[-] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 11 points 11 months ago
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[-] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

"It's war, no one's happy. If those same spies were in our camps..."

Lord Tywin Lannister

But seriously, yes, I'm sure they have low morale. But it's frontline peer conflict. I'm sure the GRU has plenty of intercepted calls from Ukrainian conscripts saying and feeling very similarly.

Maybe that can't be extrapolated across the board for the UA, but certainly enough for a similar propaganda/psyop release.

[-] kescusay@lemmy.world 29 points 11 months ago

Unlikely. The Ukrainians are literally fighting for their homes and their lives. While I'm sure they're sick of warfare, it doesn't follow that their morale would at all be similar.

[-] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 22 points 11 months ago

An army can have good overall morale, and still have frontline soldiers complaining on the phone, especially conscripts.

That's my point. Selective release of intercepted calls of soldiers complaining, or otherwise expressing negative feelings isn't unique to armies with poor morale.

The Ukrainians are still humans. They aren't zealots, or robots. Humans have complex feelings, and they communicate those feelings, sometimes in ways that can be intercepted by enemy surveillance.

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[-] mtchristo@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago

Do any soldiers want in? I bet both sides are tired

[-] idiomaddict@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago

Andrei’s mom knows what to say to reporters to protect her son, I hope.

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this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2023
474 points (97.2% liked)

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