32

So I've seen a comment about learning Spanish making you get a little grip on Portugeese and Italian, my own language helps understand our neighbors.

I wonder, how to abuse that system for the most efficient pick of 3 or 4 languages to rule them all? Let the bar be just reading, text as simple as social media posts.

Again, not people (or we can just put this link, but languages treated as autonomous entities by science.

top 26 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] glibg10b@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago
[-] guyrocket@kbin.social 15 points 1 year ago

I'll start with the concept of Language Families. Read that article, it explains a lot.

Then look at the list of language families. You'll start to see that what you're asking is pretty complicated. I got this video from my library a while ago which is very good.

I would start from your "target" language groups and work back from that. I want to know Russian so I'll learn that which will help with other Slavic and East Slavic languages languages.

I've not searched but I'm sure there are YT vids about language families too.

[-] Canadian_Cabinet@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago

I'd agree with the any of the Romance languages. As a native Spanish speaker I constantly begin to read Portugese before realizing that I can't really read this.

[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Same, but I've learned to read Portuguese and French by thinking of them as mispronounced words and phrases that I already know. It's not perfect but it kind of works.

[-] TootSweet@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I know if you can read Chinese, you can "get the gist" of most Japanese writing and vice versa. I think a lot of east Asian languages trace their origin to or at least have borrowed a lot from China. So probably Mandarin?

I suppose you could go with Cantonese instead of Mandarin. I'm not sure if more languages have more in commom with Cantonese than Mandarin or not, but Mandarin is the second most spoken language on earth. So I'd think Mandarin would have a lot of utility.

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That raises an important point: the Chinese language(s) are actually completely unrelated to Japanese, but the writing systems are related—and their partly-semantic nature lets readers recognize some isolated written words (with no indication of pronunciation or syntax).

Does that meet OP’s criteria, since they said they were mostly interested in reading?

If you learned Mandarin, but learned to read Pinyin instead of kanji, the mutual intelligibility of other languages would be totally different.

[-] daredevil@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

To add further context--I'd like to emphasize that an understanding of written Chinese would help with Kanji, but like you said, to a limited extent. When reading Kanji, there are cases where you'd have to be cognizant of Onyomi and Kunyomi (Basically pronunciations rooted in Chinese vs. Japanese). Not as important if you are strictly "reading", I suppose. However, this would also not provide insight when reading Hiragana nor Katakana, how particles are used, rules for conjugation (polite vs. casual, past vs. non-past tense, etc.), further reducing mutual intelligibility. In some cases, Chinese characters may be visually identical to Japanese Kanji, yet have different meanings or applications. Traditional Chinese vs. Simplified Chinese is also a whole other topic.

Examples where there is some similarity:
JP: 走る
EN: Run (verb)

CN: 走路
EN: Walk (verb)

Matching characters, unrelated meaning and application:
JP: 勉強
EN: Study (noun)

CN: 勉強
EN: Reluctantly (adverb)

Furthermore, Chinese uses Subject-Verb-Object (SVO) word order, whereas Japanese uses Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) word order. Japanese also regularly uses subject omission, so it's important to consider these things if you're moving from one language to the other. Missing an understanding of these differences could lead to pretty different interpretations of a sentence.

That being said, having a background in Chinese would be more beneficial when picking up Japanese than the other way around, IMO.

[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I feel a lot of asian languages have some roots here, since they are that old of a civilization. It's a good suggestion. I only struggle to think about how their different writing methods can affect it. And wasn't Chinese so heavy on different dialects?

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago

That's, while a noble idea, unfortunately impossible.

There's simply too many languages. In india alone there is a ton of native languages, which have like maybe a thousand speakers each. Like, every village has their language, which often differs quite strongly from neighbouring villages. Same is true in many places in africa.

You kind of have to restrict yourself to certain languages which you actually intend to use. Otherwise it's just unmanageable.

[-] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 8 points 1 year ago

You already have a gigantic head start with English. Everything you would want to read online is already in English

[-] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 5 points 1 year ago

Except in France 😬

Source: my lil bro researcher.

[-] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 3 points 1 year ago
[-] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 2 points 1 year ago

Pour lui, oui, moi je ne suis pas un chercheur 😁.

Bonne soirée mon ami !

[-] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago

Italy and Spain too.

Romance language speakers are less enclined to switch to English for everyone compared to Germanic languages speakers

[-] theKalash@feddit.ch 6 points 1 year ago

A whole bunch of slavik languages are very similar. I had an ex from Slovakia and she could reasonably communicate in Polish and Czech.

[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm a russian and I can understand written or spoken Ukrainian and Belarussian (although the last one is sadly dying), a side of Bulgarian and a little bit from other ex-USSR languages since they got their 20th century's neologisms from Moscow. Trying to get news headlines on Slovakian, Serbian, Czech and Polish were hit-and-miss tho. Tons of different words, and I recognized mostly names, not verbs, the way I have it with almost any other language written with latin script's forks.

[-] theKalash@feddit.ch 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yup, there seem to be several groups of slavik languages. From the Czech language wiki:

Czech [...] is a West Slavic language of the Czech–Slovak group, written in Latin script. [...] Czech is closely related to Slovak, to the point of high mutual intelligibility, as well as to Polish to a lesser degree

Also there is the Germanic languages. The youtube channel "RobWords" as a lot of interessting videos.

Two of them he talks about certain letter replacements that let's you somewhat read German or French by just replacing certain letters that turns them into English words.

[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Two of them he talks about certain letter replacements that let's you somewhat read German or French by just replacing certain letters that turns them into English words.

That seems very, very useful. Just encountered french instance's posts. Would love to test it if they appear again. Thank you.

[-] Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This should fit your need, at least for Romance languages

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlingua

[-] angrystego@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Based on other responses, I'd say English, Chinese and Spanish cover a lot of territorry. Are there any suggestions for African and Indian languages? In general I think it's logical to look for languages of nations with big cultural influence on other countries.

[-] nomecks@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

American Sign Language will get you pretty far in a lot of countries.

[-] Scrollone@feddit.it 6 points 1 year ago

I don't agree. Every spoken language has a different Sign Language. If you speak American sign language in Europe, nobody will understand you

[-] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago

Do many people know it? I briefly googled this subject long ago snd it seems there are a lot of sign languages with their differences.

[-] angrystego@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

In which countries does it work?

this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2023
32 points (92.1% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35868 readers
514 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS