Ranked: Per Capita Carbon Emissions by Country : worldnews

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

~~I like how China isn't even near the top despite producing all the shit for these countries.~~

Edit: ComradeSalad is smart and actually reads things :)

This doesn’t account for trades goods. China should be much higher and absolutely within the top 15 if you accounted for traded goods.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This doesn’t account for trade goods. China should be much higher and absolutely within the top 15 if you accounted for traded goods.

[-] Flamingoaks@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago

exact opposite actually https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-capita?tab=table&time=2019..2021 China is the #1 stuff exported so their emissions go down a bit (not too much cuz they also import a lot) while small poor oil producers drop way down, and imperial core countries go up because they import more than they export in general.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago

That’s only consumption metrics. That is the exact same as this graph. Did you read the header of the graph you chose? It also excludes exports and traded goods.

While they are consumed elsewhere, China still profits off of those produced goods. Do you think that the emissions from those factories aren’t concentrated?

[-] BoxedFenders@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Now factor in Western companies who outsource their manufacturing to China and maintain higher profit margins than the factories themselves.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

They do, but the out sourcing isn't what produces the carbon emissions, its the production itself.

Is it immoral, yes. Is it unethical and a way to push the problem onto someone else? Yes. Does China still profit off of it, also yes. But the production is the source of the emissions, not some corporate entity.

[-] RedClouds@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

I'm confused. I clicked on flamingoats Link and got a different set of data than was used for the graph above. What link did you see?

...

Right in the middle of this, I think I realized that what you were saying is that the original post did not take into account trade at all, whereas Flamingoats Link did take into account trade and China was lowered. So are you saying that the two pieces of data align and if you were not taking away emissions from trade, then China would be higher?

Because if that is true, then isn't it more genuine to show the emissions that the citizens actually use? Because the emissions of Western countries are much higher because they're exporting their manufacturing.

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

That makes a lot more sense - thanks

[-] Flamingoaks@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago

it doesnt, china is an overall exporter so they go down

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-capita?time=latest

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

That’s the exact same graph, read the header above it. That’s only consumption metrics and they are not counting the production of goods for export. I was referring the total emissions, which would include the production of goods and services.

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago

All good! No worries! By extension the US should also be much higher!

[-] PanArab@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago

As someone who’s from Arabia a few points:

Desalination and cooling are the major factors for our high energy consumption
The US still refuses allowing us to make use of uranium
Photovoltaic doesn’t work when it’s regularly over 40C and there have been one infamous case of the panels melting

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago

Sounds like uranium problem might now be solved with help from Russia, and an alternative to photovoltaic solar power would be to use mirrors to heat up molten salt the way China is doing with some of their plants http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-03/01/c_139775005.htm

[-] PanArab@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago

Saudi Arabia is building the world’s largest solar thermal plant and has been negotiating civilian nuclear development with China.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago

Good stuff, I expect a lot of positive development will come out of partnering with China and Russia in the near future.

[-] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This data is based on territorial emissions, which do not account for emissions embedded in traded goods.

Is there a source that accounts for this? Because IMO the data is useless unless this is factored in.

Also it's nuts that Canada is able to sneak in here. I'm guessing they rely too much on fossil fuels for energy is my guess.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago

For sure, I've seen metrics before where they account for total cost of emissions based on consumption. I do think that's a more useful metric overall because at the end of the day it doesn't matter where emissions happen, the demand for goods is what's driving the emissions. So, if we want to reduce emissions meaningfully, we need to cut consumption. Focusing on domestic emissions also allows for games such as one Europe is playing where they're just outsourcing all their industry and then claiming to have cut emissions.

[-] Flamingoaks@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-capita?time=latest

same source actually

[-] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

Thanks

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago

i can't stop being skeptical off these studies.

how does it work when international institutions are involved? many polluting processes are outsourced to the global south because its cheaper, but the profits go to the global north, who is getting the emissions debt in these cases? what about financial debts paid with the profits of polluting processes?

i feel like these studies will never paint the real picture because it tries to isolate carbon emissions per country without taking in mind the relations of production. for example trinidad y tobago, without knowing anything about the country i can bet that whatever industry they have (i bet its energy) is primarily owned by foreign companies and thus they are profiting off that but trinidad y tobago assumes the emissions debt as we see here.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago

I agree, but even when a lot of emissions externalized, western countries are looking pretty terrible while China's emissions per capita are pretty low. Given that China is a major industrial power, that's quite an achievement.

[-] RedClouds@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 years ago

I don't know if you saw the other responses below, but this data does not take into account trade, either imported or exported, but other sources people have linked to does take into account trade, and actually might be more interesting, and more accurate, results.

[-] redline@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

someone needs to take the mantle of visualmarxist, im sick of this twat (these twats?)

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago

haha totally, they make good charts, but it always hurts me inside to link to them :)

[-] redline@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 years ago

i can imagine that yeah

[-] EmmaGoldman@hexbear.net 9 points 2 years ago

Yo what's going on in Trinidad and Tobago?

[-] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Big tourist industry, major port, with small local population = each local "takes on" the tonnage that came from several tourists + cruise ships and shipping in general.

That's my guess anyway, because a similar thing is going on in my country with water consumption.

[-] KrupskayaPraxis@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago

Fuck cruise ships. They do nothing but pollute, and have no actual use

[-] context@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

cement production

[-] Dr_Gabriel_Aby@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

They mix petrochemicals and other raw materials from other nations.

Oil smoothies ain’t good.

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 7 points 2 years ago

Bruh wtf is Trinidad and Tobago doing to be up there with the gulf oil states?

[-] DoiDoi@hexbear.net 8 points 2 years ago

Same thing - their economy is entirely based on petroleum extraction and processing.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 years ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

[removed by mod]

[-] Ciel@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

coal power plants for electricity export and crypto mining iirc

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