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We all need more mental health help because *gestures broadly at everything.*
Also, mental health care is not going to solve problems caused by economic issues.
Came here thinking of a way to say exactly that so . . . uh . . same?
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I can see that. These guys don't know how to date/flirt etc they didn't have the same milestones others kids did. They should have learned when everyone in their cohort was learning. Imagine if you didn't learn the fundamentals of any subject but had to keep going to harder and harder levels. End up with the dating mind of a 13 year old trying to deal with 23 year olds. Of course you need experience to get experience like a fucking zen riddle so they fall even further behind. Partners don't want to deal with the awkward insanity of a boy in a man's body.
To be honest, dating 20+ is a shit show. The things i learned about dating in my teens didn't help me dating in my 30's. Sure they have issues dating but we all do. It's the willingness to learn, adapt, and care for someone else that i don't see in incels and that isn't learned from dating in your teens. They seem to blame outside forces for their issues and not seek to improve themselves
Well for me it made a big difference. I don't think me and my wife would have stayed together had it not been for other woman I had dated prior. Learned how to have an argument, how to show random acts of kindness, gotten the nerve up to tell them when they are hurting you unintentionally, etc. This stuff didn't come naturally to me.
100%! I am not saying learning these things doesn't help. But blaming lack of dating in their teens for an incel becoming who they are is not a valid justification in my opinion.
You can only blame yourself so much before it causes so much emotional anguish that you turn your frustration outwards.
Partners don’t want to deal with the awkward insanity of a boy in a man’s body.
nor should they be required to; the enormous amount of work we put on women to make relationships work is already crushing. This reminds me of the screeds about how "liberal women will need to compromise for the good of the demographics of the country, they'll need to date conservatives of course!" - THEY REALLY THINK THIS SHIT. They feel they're being DISCRIMINATED against for their views hahahaha, that's how fucked up they are. https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2021/07/12/political-discrimination-as-civil-rights-struggle/
it's obscene.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3675477-young-women-are-trending-liberal-young-men-are-not/
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This right there is the source of most of my anxiety
Try interacting with women without the expectation of an intimate relationship. And I don't mean "be friends for a while with the end goal of getting with them". I think a big issue is seeing women as an achievement instead of as people.
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This is exactly my situation and it seems to get more dire every year that I stay single. I wish I could upvotes you a thousand times.
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I'll go ahead and file that one under "No shit."
Malignant misogyny isn't mental illness.
We can address problems with male alienation, isolation, and loneliness without having to coddle terrorist reactionaries.
No but that doesn't mean it doesn't need addressing
that depends on what you mean by addressing - there's a ton of apologism for incels, as if they're being persecuted.
So yeah, there's a spectrum here and women accepting abusive and misogynist partners is definitely in the right wing playbook.
Providing mental help does not equal women accepting abusive partners, how tf did you make that mental leap?
Edit: Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. Apologies.
how tf did you make that mental leap?
did you read the link or just jump into the comments with a rageon? because the link explains how the right wing thinks of this shit. I didn't make it up, they did.
My bad, I assumed we were actually staying on topic - getting incels mental help. I'll correct myself and assume from now on that any comments that fail to make sense are bad-faith attempts to co-opt a post.
Edit: Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. I apologize.
yeah I got that. that’s why I responded:
that depends on what you mean by addressing
because there’s a wide array of responses and I’m genuinely curious to learn what the OP of this thread meant. Not because I was attacking their premise, but because there’s past history of this tact - that the world should accommodate a percentage of the population who have shown misogynistic tendencies. To which I say: nah. nope. naw.
I apologize. I've been up for twenty-four hours, the last twelve of which were on a delayed and then stranded bus in a snow storm. I was taking out my frustrations on you, and was needlessly snarky.
Upon reread, I see that you were genuine, and I actually do need to check and correct myself. I'll leave my earlier comments up with an edit.
Really living up to your third ideal there. Genuine respect for acknowledging fault in an internet argument
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Why would I mean apologism? They need their worldview reprogramming because their current worldview is misogynistic and false. Reprogramming would include comprehensive challenging of negative attitudes and modelling of correct, non-misogynistic beliefs. It should be done by people with psychological training because they have the skills and knowhow needed to reprogramme someone's thinking but it doesn't particularly need mental health professionals or collusive, misplaced sympathy.
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I’m not entirely sure they’re fully unrelated either though.
They needed a report to figure that out?
Everyone already knew that, yes, but in order to get these who control the purse strings to yield cash to address it, it needs formalising.
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Even though we all knew that stuff falls to the ground if you leave it unsupported, we still needed someone to gather some scientific data, find reasons why and prove that gravity exists. That’s just how science works.
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I wonder if this outlook is more a sign that these people need some help getting started and in a productive tradjectory. Pretty sure this would be me if I hadn't gotten laid+decent-pay, and had to live with family/random people, never having anything of my own...
I don't know about that. I was pretty fine before my first. Place of your own and decent pay. Yeah. everyone needs that. Adults should be able to at a minimum have an efficency of their own while being able to pay at least minimal bills and if they split a multibedroom with roommates or rent out a room from a house they should be able to have a bit more spendy of a life. That should be the minimum and be easy to get. Not something you have to work hard to achieve.
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I mean there's so many underlying issues with incels and trying to overcome learned helplessness is no small task. But an idea that helped me was that there is either a problem with me and what I'm doing, or there's a problem with all women. One of those issues I can take steps to try and improve, the other is completely out of my control and nothing I do will ever change that.
If you are incapable or unwilling to go through an honest introspection of yourself then things will never change for you imo.
To a degree they do. It isn't just mental health though.
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this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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