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submitted 1 year ago by kilgore@feddit.de to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

Hey Folks!

I've been living abroad for over half my life in a country where tipping is not the norm. At most you would round up. 19€ bill? Here's a 20, keep this change.

Going to the US soon to visit family and the whole idea of tipping makes me nervous. It seems there's a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don't know how much has changed in this regard.

The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.

So will AITA if I don't tip? Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?

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[-] masto@vlemmy.net 67 points 1 year ago

Yes. You really have to tip. 20%. Sorry. And tax isn’t included in the prices of things. That’s the way things work here and you can choose to spend the whole time being annoyed by it or not. But please don’t make a personal protest that only hurts some of the lowest paid and hardest working people.

[-] Nyefan@lemmy.ml 43 points 1 year ago

To be as clear as possible - the minimum wage for tipped staff is $2.13/hr. That's why you have to tip.

[-] MDKAOD@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 year ago

This is deceiving though. In The US tipping is literally everywhere now.

If you are waited on, I. E. Sat at a table or served at a bar, tipping is expected. If you go to a counter and place an order and someone hands you something while you're standing there, those workers aren't making 2.13/hr.

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[-] Jake_Farm@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 year ago

Not true, restuarants have to make up the difference in their wage if they dont make enough in tips.

[-] this@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago

Yes, up to minimum wage, which is still often not enought to live on.

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[-] goGetF1@startrek.website 11 points 1 year ago

This does depend on which state you’re in (some states don’t have a “tipped wage”), but the vast majority of service workers are not raking in the big bucks, so be generous if you can!

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[-] dandroid@dandroid.app 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just FYI, we have recently had a huge influx of electronic systems asking for tips in places that tips didn't exist before. I only tip when I sit down to eat at a restaurant and they serve me. If you walk up to the counter to order, you don't tip. If you are ordering takeout (even at a sit-down restaurant), you don't tip.

It's a really fucking stupid system that most of us hate, but if you don't participate, you are the asshole according to our culture (even though we know it's really the businesses not paying their employees enough that are really the assholes)

Edit: oh, and then "suggested tip" went up around the same time that these electronic systems popped up. My whole life, a 10% tip was bad, a 15% tip was average. A 20% tip was good. Now it seems the "suggested tip" says you should tip 20% minimum. I think this is bullshit, and I ignore it. The people who are suggesting the tip are the ones that benefit from it going higher. They are always going to try to increase it as long as they can get away with it. I stick to the 10/15/20% rule.

[-] kn0wmad1c@programming.dev 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's been a small movement towards going tipless that hasn't yet caught on because tip culture is primarily backed by greed. Restaurant owners want customers to pay their employees directly instead of providing them with a decent wage.

I know I'm likely misrepresenting, but that's the gist as I see it, and until greed goes away everything @dandroid@dandroid.app said holds true.

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[-] Sal@mander.xyz 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My view is: I don't like this cultural element, and I am glad that I live in a country without it. But if I am a visitor from abroad I would not resist the local culture and try to impose my own values. If I am aware of this cultural element and I dislike it, my options would be to either avoid restaurants and other tipping situations as much as I can, or simply account for the tip when making my financial decisions, and pay it.

If I live in the country then it is different, because then I am more entitled to be a driver of change. Personally, my approach would be to support businesses with explicit no-tipping policy, and to refuse receiving tips myself.

[-] randomguy2323@lemmy.fmhy.ml 20 points 1 year ago

No one can force to tip and as Americans we hate the tipping culture too.

[-] nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev 15 points 1 year ago

Some people love it, namely the ones that have most to gain.

So business owners, and extremely attractive waitstaff

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[-] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@vlemmy.net 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It seems there's a lot of discussion about getting rid of tipping, but I don't know how much has changed in this regard.

Nothing has changed, and it never will, as it concerns poor and "therefore" "deserving" people. Americans' talk is cheap.

The system seems ridiculously unfair, and that extra expense in a country where everything is already so expensive really makes a difference.

Agreed. So when you go to a restaurant and you have a maximum amount you can spend, divide the amount of money you have by (100% + local sales tax), then divide by (100% + the menu price), and subtract any surcharges added by the restaurant (assume $5.00 if you cannot look it up), often masquerading as a tip. I know it's a lot of math, but you have a computer in your pocket. You'll manage.

In my view, the US is a fractal scam. At every level, everything is an attempt to extract money from ill-informed "suckers", from the running of the government, to the prices of supermarket groceries, to the tipping culture at restaurants, to even finding a place to put your car [1]. Every single thing is someone's grift. In order to function in America, you need to be willing to be suckered to some extent. There's no way around it. Unfairness is baked into every transaction, and increasingly more social interactions.

Everything in America is ridiculously unfair. We wear this on our sleeves, and for many Americans this fact defines their personality. Unfortunately, you will have to deal with it in the short term at least.

Now if you would like to be the one to lead the charge against the tipping culture and the foisting of responsibility for servers' compensation onto the customer, then be my guest. Refuse to tip and make a big scene about it. Make plans for how to take the inertia of your big struggle and turn it into a mass movement. I would thrilled to join you. However, I somehow doubt that you're ready to go that far; none of the customers who stiffed me ever went on to start anti-tipping movements.

So will AITA if I don't tip?

Yes. You are expected by all members of the public here to tip. That is our culture, something we're proud of for some reason, and our expectation. For some servers, tips are the primary source of income at work.

Is it really my personal responsibility to make sure my server is paid enough?

No, it is the responsibility of the employer. However, when no employer takes their responsibility and you sit yourself down at a restaurant, the logical conclusion is that either you pay that part of the server's wages, or they get stiffed. You know that this is the conclusion. (Or if not, now you do.)

If you want to participate in our unique restaurant scam, you gotta accept that you're going to get suckered into paying the server's wages. Otherwise, don't go to restaurants. When you go to a restaurant, you waste the employees' finite time on this planet doing tedious, physically and mentally demanding bullshit that no sane person would choose to engage with, if not faced with the threats of homelessness and starvation. [2] At least make it worth their while.

Sorry if I come off as having a chip on my shoulder, but that's only because I totally do. So many customers used to concern-troll me as a pizza delivery person and give me shit like "sorry, couldn't afford to tip, they should really pay you more." Yeah, they should, but you absolutely could have tipped; all you had to do was order one less topping. I'd love to see some actual solidarity with food service employees, but that would require challenging deep-rooted assumptions about our culture and we're too shit-for-brains to do that. Americans are so compassionate and empathetic until the moment they actually have to lift a finger.

So when someone brings up "unfairness" or "it's X's responsibility to pay the workers" in response to tipping, I just kinda die a little inside from all the times those sentiments have been used against me and my colleagues.

[1] And don't even get me started on the process of buying a car, or how the public was scammed into accepting a car-centric infrastructure.

[2] This is really a special case of the logic behind the antiwork movement: nobody actually wants to go to work. We only go to work under the threats of starvation and homelessness imposed by capitalism.

[-] footox@lemmy.one 11 points 1 year ago

Solid rant. No, really, I enjoyed it til the end. Spot on!

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[-] Synthuir@lemmy.ml 27 points 1 year ago

There are already a lot of good answers here, but I thought you might appreciate a fictionalized version of my personal experience.

Back in the kitchen, the hostess comes in.

“I’ve got a 2-top at table 23, who’s next in the rotation?”

“Uh… I think it’s Bob, but he’s busy doing bumps in the walk in. I’ll take it. They nice?”

“Uhh, I think they’re German.”

Unfortunately for them, the knowledge that Europeans tend to tip poorly or not at all proceeds them. The server who took the two top will still serve them, but either consciously or subconsciously the service will suffer. Maybe your food was done five minutes ago sitting on the hot line, but your server decided to go chat up the elderly couple or the regular customer instead. Maybe the server is more rude or cold to you than other guests. Or maybe you’re lucky and your server isn’t yet jaded. Your mileage may vary depending on if you’re eating in a small town diner or a tourist hotspot, but even if the service seems fine, there’s almost certainly chatter going on behind your back from the moment you sit down.

There’s a very small chance that your server will chase after you if you leave no tip, but that is virtually unheard of and will get the server fired if it’s a nicer establishment. The more likely chain of events is that you leave, the server checks the checkbook, then goes into the back-of-house to scream/cry/drink/smoke/fuck someone/something. It’s completely ruined several of my shifts.

—BUT—

The above is all wrong. It felt gross to type, and feels grosser to know that I once felt that. These feelings may have been ‘valid’ considering the tipped system that I was a part of, but I have a hard time thinking of them as ‘reasonable’. As an empathetic human, I wish to treat everyone well. Also, I love travel, and would love to spend 30 minutes talking about the Cologne cathedral or the Bielefeld conspiracy or whateverthefuck. But I can’t, because then I’d be actively losing money. The profit motive of tip system makes servers, managers, and even clients all jaded. The anger that I felt when I was stiffed was unjustly redirected from the tipping system to the individual, because the system is designed to perpetuate itself. I make less money now, but I’m very glad I left that industry.

BONUS: If you want to see a hilarious yet barely over exaggerated vignette of what American servers do and how they think when you can’t see them, give Waiting… (2005) a watch.

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[-] SteelCorrelation@lemmy.one 26 points 1 year ago

Here, unfortunately, YTA if you don't tip. I forgot once and had the server run after me to make sure something wasn't wrong. Some service folks take it personally if you don't tip, which makes sense given that their employers don't pay them shit. So yeah, you the customer foot the bill for ensuring these people can make ends meet... as if giving the restaurant your custom wasn't support enough.

The problem is that, like most other industries here in the US, the system is rigged against the working class. While not all restaurant owners intend to fuck over their staff (especially smaller, local places), it's how it works. Now, some places will automatically add gratuity to your bill under certain conditions, so check your breakdown to ensure it's not already included. This is becoming more common, which irritates me since I scale my tip based on the quality of the service rendered.

Also, we know it's expensive here. Don't bother coming here to complain about it, we do it enough ourselves. Tipping is here to stay for now and I don't imagine it changing for quite some time.

[-] Stovetop@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 year ago

Just to add onto this good answer, you are really only expected to tip for sit-down restaurants with service and bars.

For takeout, cafes, fast food, etc., you don't need to tip. A lot of places these have payment machines that just ask if you want to tip by default. You can safely hit "No tip" on these if you don't want to.

Ostensibly it's just to replace the tip jar for those who don't use cash, but the prompt appearing every time you pay by card has convinced a lot of people that tipping is what you're supposed to do in those situations, when in reality you have no obligation to.

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[-] vitriolix@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 year ago

Definitely tip. If you think the whole system sucks that's fine, but don't take out that frustration on the likely vastly underpaid employees

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 year ago

You enter a social compact when you enter an establishment that does tipping. When you don't tip, you're not making it better, your making sure someone goes hungry

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[-] circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 1 year ago

I'd say yes. The situation is complex.

It's clear that tipping culture is out of control. There are many places asking for 20% tips even when ordering from a counter where the interaction takes about 10 seconds.

Unfortunately there has also been a systematic underpayment of wages which has occurred largely on the back of tips. In some states it is even legal to pay less than minimum wage and supplement that with tips. For that reason, it's not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy.

Certainly the system needs to change, but as of this moment in the US, just assume everything actually costs 20% more and tip.

[-] BrainisfineIthink@lemmy.one 12 points 1 year ago

it's not really an option to simply not tip without being the bad guy

My man you have got to shake this from your psyche, that's exactly how the employers that aren't paying their employees want you to feel. You're offloading their greed and systematic exploitation of working class people onto yourself under the misplaced guise of personal guilt. There may not a way to immediately fix the problem, but I can guarantee it will never get fixed if we dont change anything.

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[-] anthr76@lemmy.kutara.io 23 points 1 year ago

Yes in the service industry where you will be served you very much likely would be expected to tip. So places may make this more obvious then others with a tip bracket on the receipt or signs somewhere.

Its also important to note most places in the US expect a 15% tip of what you spent but in some higher dense areas where the CoL is out of control it’s 20%

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[-] sarahcanary@lemmy.one 20 points 1 year ago

Yes, it does make you the asshole, especially because you know that's what we do here and why we do it. Until living wage laws are passed, it's not going to change.

[-] kilgore@feddit.de 18 points 1 year ago

In all honesty, I will probably just tip the minimum amount and try not to let it get to me. Its not like I'll be out eating by myself anyway, there will be plenty of social pressure to help me along :)

But imagine if all jobs worked this way. Oh, you wanted a good outcome for your surgery? Maybe you should have tipped your surgeon! Oh, you wanted your taxes done correctly? Should have tipped! Sorry boss, I would have gotten you that report on time, but you forgot to leave me a tip!

I also think its silly that tips are based on the price of your meal, as if that has anything to do with the service whatsoever. So the person who ordered a steak pays more in a tip than the person who ordered a salad? Why? It would make way more sense to tip based on time spent in the establishment. I would understand a standard 5$ tip per half-hour or something way more.

[-] freeman@lemmy.pub 16 points 1 year ago

Here’s the thing. There are now tips added to all sorts of checkouts. And it’s muddier than ever.

As an American I don’t tip shit unless it’s a full service restaurant. Aka they are refilling my drinks for me.

If I’m getting a sandwich at a sandwich line where you stand in line and call out what ingrediants you want and take it to go, I don’t tip. If I’m just getting a coffee black, I’m not tipping. Etc etc.

The checkouts now though ask for tips on all sorts of stuff. I increasingly refuse to tip for things like self service places, takeout, etc.

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[-] ruckblack@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago

Yep, 100% the asshole if you're eating out at restaurants here and you don't tip. Other things can be a little more debatable, but the 15-20% standard for eating at a restaurant is set in stone. If you don't tip or give a low tip, the server will assume you hated their service or that you're just an ass. It's a dumb rule, but it is what it is here right now.

[-] gun@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

Yes, you do have to tip. Maybe not if it's Chipotle or a place like that. But if someone is waiting your table you have to tip. Yes tipping culture is stupid. No, nothing has changed in the US. They do not have a living without tips, so refusing to tip cuts into their living expenses after they have courteously served you your food. It's rude

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[-] Kerred@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago

To sum up, if you work in a business that relies on tips, you will defend the crap out of tipping and will be biased towards tipping uncontrollably.

If you are a business that wants to squeeze every penny, you will encourage and propaganda tipping as much as you can.

If you are anyone else you will wish for something different.

I recommend that you tip when the app says to tip, just simplify your life and if a screen says add a tip choose the minimum for now and don't worry about it yet.

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[-] Roko@lemmy.click 16 points 1 year ago

I have come across a couple restaurants that specify that they are "no tip." I try to keep an eye out for those and try to give business to them. Or I avoid places with that expectation. But I usually tip around 20% in those common circumstances mentioned in this thread. I hate the system though. It's parasitic and manipulative.

[-] lackthought@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 1 year ago

I only tip for sit-down restaurants where an actual servers brings me my food

everywhere else I preemptively give the stank face as I mash the 'no tip' button on their payment system

I usually just round up to the next $5 amount to make the numbers clean, don't really care what the % is

so a $16.83 bill gets a $3.17 tip

this makes it easier to plan a meal budget, like "ok I'm spending $20 on a burger and fries today"

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[-] godless@latte.isnot.coffee 15 points 1 year ago

Nobody can force you to. People will probably consider you to be rude, but you do yours. I also live in a place where not tipping is customary (and in fact tipping considered to be rude) and refuse to embrace this system. I'm already annoyed by list prices excluding VAT. That's like a borderline scam.

[-] Stumblinbear@pawb.social 11 points 1 year ago

We don't have a VAT in the US, only sales tax. It's not just a name difference, they're different in how they're applied

[-] godless@latte.isnot.coffee 14 points 1 year ago

Ok whatever it is, the price on display is not the final price, and I feel scammed.

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[-] Fylkir@lemmy.sdf.org 15 points 1 year ago

American here. Here's the three common contexts for tipping. Everything else is something someone's trying to make a thing rather than actually a thing:

  1. Restaurants: If someone is bringing food from the Kitchen to your table

  2. Delivery: If someone's delivering food. Or they're personally delivering groceries.

  3. Transportation: If someone's driving you personally. Like a Taxi.

Some say you should tip bathroom attendants. I've never even seen a bathroom attendant, but that seems like such a bizarre job to tip for, even by American standards.

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[-] smstnitc@lemmy2.addictmud.org 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Only time tipping should be observed is when you're at a restaurant that seats you at a table and takes your order. And when you order delivery. Anything else is just people gaming the system to get whatever they can from people.

Edit: I missed bartenders (sorry!). Tip your bartender! They will take care of you if you tip well.

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[-] tgxn@lemmy.tgxn.net 13 points 1 year ago

I'm from Australia, where we don't tip; and yes; you have to in America. It's likely that the person serving you needs tips to survive, so think of it as money for them directly. (even tho in most cases I don't think they get 100%?) I make a point of not tipping at home because people should get paid a living wage without having to rely on tips. I say you'd be the asshole because customer service employees in USA need that extra money to make ends meet.

[-] kilgore@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago

But isn't the the employer who is the asshole for not paying a living wage?

[-] gambo@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Yes, but that’s just the unfortunate reality

[-] Chainweasel@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It depends.
If you go to a restaurant where your food is brought to you are probably going to be expected to tip.
But, if it's a Fast Food restaurant like McDonald's or someplace you stand in line and get your plate like Chipotle or a buffet you're not going to be expected to tip.

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[-] darkmatterstyx@lemmy.fmhy.ml 12 points 1 year ago

You will want to tip 15-25%wheb you are dining at a sit down restaurant. If you are at a counter service buisness or café, you should only tip of they went out of their way to make your experience amazing. If you will be staying at hotels, you should tip bellmen $3-$5 per bag, concierge 5-10% of what they have procured for you. Cab's, Ubers, or any car service 10-20% (I usually do a minimum of $5 here.) if you get asked for a tip on any self-service screen, just deny it, that's a cash grab for the business owner. You can offer a tip to any employee you want if they go out of their way for you, however outside the service industry, employers will direct the staff to politely refuse.

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this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2023
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