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Something that i find prettyd disgusting these days is how certain people put their political ideologies / viewpoints over human lives, for example, celebrating the russian invasion of ukraine because it is "a blow against US / NATO imperialism" completely ignoring all the warcrimes, the deaths, and the suffering generated by that war, the same happening with the palestinian genocide because "Israel is the only working democracy on the middle east", acting like their ideoligies are going to bring back to life all the dead people somehow

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[-] AncientFutureNow@lemmy.world 51 points 8 months ago

I'm trans. Tell me more. 🤷‍♀️

[-] TakiMinase@slrpnk.net 25 points 8 months ago

If authoritarians get their way, you'll have to hide in my attic until we are liberated.

[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Maybe even write a book while you're up there.

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[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 35 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The people who boil complex geopolitical events down to "haha western imperialism is finally getting challenged, lol shitlib get owned" are immature teenagers arguing in bad faith or on things they don't understand. That would be what we call a "tankie".

The same goes for those blindly supporting Israel because "omg hamas is terrorist" or whatever the hell they even justify it with anymore. A lot of those may just be quiet racists or fascists happy to see a dictator like Netanyahu have his way with Western support- obviously never thinking for a second that they themselves have an equal chance of being on the receiving end of such treatment, not the delivering end.

Both of these situations are absolutely horrible. But neither can really be boiled down to simple ideology over human lives as much as the lower-quality people love to do so. People want things to fit how they think so that they can feel good about their thoughts. Many things get shaped in that lens and it gets worse every day. And, unfortunately, the only real solution is just not to interact. Their minds can never be changed once they set up their world view to be self supporting.

Your views mirror mine closely. Ukraine's war is awful, but it never needed to happen if Putin wasn't such a trigger-happy, imperialistic dictator. His war is purely for territorial and ideological expansion of control at the expense of human life. Same goes for Palestine, while the operation was framed as being anti-terrorism at first, Netanyahu has gotten completely unhinged and fallen out of line in some crazy drive to control all of Gaza and eliminate Israel's competition. However, I support Ukraine and do not support Israel, despite these being philosophically contradictory in the terms of "preserving human life over ideologies" since Ukraine is still killing people. The context makes the conscience.

[-] sneezycat@sopuli.xyz 23 points 8 months ago

Ukraine is killing people to preserve their people's lives, it's not contradictory.

[-] Shiggles@sh.itjust.works 16 points 8 months ago

“Killing Russians in self defense is comparable to genociding Palestinians” is the take of a very, very sheltered individual.

[-] tryptaminev@feddit.de 4 points 8 months ago

The people who boil complex geopolitical events down to “haha western imperialism is finally getting challenged,

I mean that is what is factually happening right now. The US can no longer hold its diplomatic and military weight. The US and its allies are unable to prevent the Houthis from succesfull attacks in the Red Sea. On Israels genocide in Palestine the European countries are dividing. Putin is managing to divide the US internally and to have some European countries break away to his side. China doesn't give a fuck about US sanctions anymore and there is elaborate systems to bypass sanctions. As a result both Russian energy exports are laundered before being sold to the EU and US and western components end up in russian military equipment.

Cheering on the current prospecting alternative is stupid, as it is just another imperialist system.

But it is urgently necessary to realise the changing reality and use the window to create a world order, that puts all imperialists to limits and embraces a rule based international order of equal countries with equal people. Especially the EU could take this opportunity to renounce the remnants of its imperial ways and the subtle and open supremacist believes.

The EU countries made the terrible mistake to consider Trump an anomaly and were all to eager to remain complacent on Bidens presidency. But Trump wasn't just a pimple you wait to pass. He is the symptom of a deeper instability in the US.

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[-] Timwi@kbin.social 17 points 8 months ago

Valuing human lives is itself an ideology/viewpoint. A great one obviously, and one I fervently agree with, but once you realize this it's easier to understand how other people can put other viewpoints ahead of this one.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 15 points 8 months ago

Sometimes, but it's more complicated than that. It depends on the ideology. Sometimes ideologies clash in ways that can't be reconciled without the loss of life. For example, I think it's a good thing that the rest of the world collectively put our ideology above the lives of Nazis, and fought in ww2.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The allies didn't fight the Nazis because they took issue with their ideology, but because they became a threat to their own powers. The reality is, that many people, including leaders of the time, weren't interested in helping those being persecuted, in some cases they even inspired the persecution with their own.

The U.S. and the Holocaust (BBC, PBS) is well worth watching the whole way through, especially for how it mirrors our world today.

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[-] squid_slime@lemmy.world 13 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Politics should put people first, I struggle to understand progression if it isn't human focused.

[-] frunch@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Oh, it's focused on humans! Just not in a way that benefits most humans ಠ_ಠ

[-] squid_slime@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Too true, its focused on the 1% of humans :3

[-] callouscomic@lemm.ee 12 points 8 months ago

I was at a skating rink this weekend. It was full of families bringing their kids so their kids could have fun. Even some kids birthday parties.

Oh, and the dad wearing an anti-Biden shirt. While hanging out and skating with his kid.

Priorities.

[-] aidan@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

I mean, did wearing the shirt stop him from doing that?

[-] callouscomic@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I think you're missing the point that it doesn't really fit the environment he was in. It says a lot about how much free rent a politician seems to have in his head, when he's likely never met said politician, likely has nothing directly to do with said politician, and was also displaying it in an area where I'm fairly sure the majority already agree with him (knowing this region).

It's just a weird topic to flex in THAT specific environment.

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[-] Toneswirly@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Yeah, tankies are the worst

[-] Candelestine@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

Yeah, I get you. Just remember though, they're trying to take us back in history.

Some people just see humans, all humans, as just another random member of the animal kingdom. Just clumps of cells doing a thing. These people usually end of believing in power, and nothing else.

You know all those villainous chars from films, books, etc? Those attitudes are not limited to fiction. They're inspired by our real life history, that's what we grew up from. Some people want to go back.

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[-] danc4498@lemmy.world 9 points 8 months ago

I think it’s stupid when they say America is just fighting a proxy war. No, Ukraine is fighting for their independence. Like when France was fighting a proxy war against England back in the day, they weren’t considered the bad guys.

[-] okamiueru@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

Is this "General", or "General in the US"? I'm not saying it cannot be the latter, but if it is. I'm out. Best mentalt health choice I've done is reduce exposure to American "problems".

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[-] kugel7c@feddit.de 5 points 8 months ago

Every political position mostly tries to define in which ways violence is to be used. Realising this and knowing power is already established before you were even born. Seeing violence being used against your oppressor(s) is often times the only thing we feel we can still hope for.

Or from another perspective, is the war in Ukraine worth it for Ukraine or Russia, can you really say a war with so many deaths is preferable to being a russian subject, or an international embarrassment of the Russian state. Is the self determination of Palestinians really worth the terror and the war. We're the PIRA justified in bombing London for their brother's and sisters discrimination and deaths in Ireland. It's ultimately all subjective, wether the violence of the system you fight against is bad enough you can bring yourself to fight.

Nothing brings back anyone but as long as there are people who want to, and do turn us into their machines, we have to rely on our interpretation of that being wrong, and fight them for it.

[-] idunnololz@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

This is a very grey topic for me. We can use the Russian invasion as an example since you brought it up. You can argue that more lives would have been saved had Ukraine just rolled over and surrendered immediately. But you can also argue their quality of life would be worse. But how do you compare that to resisting and fighting a war? How many lives would you trade for how big of an improvement in quality of life?

Btw I'm for Ukraine resisting, and I support them 100%. I'm just giving an example why it might not be always best to compare in human lives. Or at least, it's really complicated.

[-] KISSmyOS@feddit.de 4 points 8 months ago

I put human lives over political ideologies, and I'm pretty alone with that.
I'm a pacifist to the point that I'm opposed to the concept of "self defense" on a national level.
If someone tries to kill you, by all means defend yourself.
But this concept doesn't translate to groups of millions of people, killing each other for years over who's in charge.

[-] chetradley@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

Interesting. What do you think Ukraine should do then if not fight back against the Russian invasion?

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this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
193 points (89.4% liked)

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