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[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 58 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

  • Martin Luther King Jr, Letter from the Birmingham Jail

Edit: I guess the more radical aspects of MLK's beliefs still upset moderates

[-] kameecoding@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

very much the vibes in these comments, "how dare you inconvenience us"

[-] KarfiolosHus@discuss.tchncs.de 38 points 1 year ago

Honestly, what is this road glueing good for? You are annoying people who are not the root cause and allowing news sites and trolls to make an enemy of you.

Congratulations, you really showed them.

[-] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 12 points 1 year ago

It'd be much more interesting and impactful to do something like espionage on oil wells or pipelines. Hurt the profits of the companies forcing it rather than everything stuck in a bad system.

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[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry, but how are daily commuters not a huge part of the cause? I recognize they're part of a larger system, and may have limited means to fix anything, but they're still participating in behavior that is destroying the only home we have.

There are two alternatives: activists either do nothing consequential, people like you ignore them and nothing changes, or...

There is a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop.

  • Mario Savio

You're literally defending the moderate in the meme.

[-] Nefyedardu@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I just don't see the point. What is "consequential" about shutting down a road? What are you trying to achieve exactly? Are you doing it just because it's beneficial in and of itself? Shutting one road out of the millions on Earth for like an hour does practically nothing and you should spend your time more wisely. Are you trying to win hearts and minds? People will do far more than just ignore your cause, they will actively despise it. Or is it just out of spite for commuters? Even though many of them, as you said, have limited means to change anything. Not everyone can afford to just quit their job to get one closer.

[-] Angry_Maple@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It would also kind of go against their own point if public transit was also stopped. Sometimes you can't just live near absolutely everything. Some people have disabilities and cannot physically ride a bike to get where they need to go. That would maybe also encourage people to take a car or a carpool, where they're more likely to be able to do a u turn.

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[-] KarfiolosHus@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 1 year ago

Have these protests done anything? For example that due to the lack of public transport people are obliged to use a car, or many workplaces especially office work are put around cities not inside because of tax reasons? In my case I had to use a car for my previous work, for it was 45 minutes instead of 4,5 hours with trains and buses.

These people do nothing, but scream STOP USING OIL, STUPID! and call it a day.

Nobody is oblivious to this problem, but many have few choices.

[-] kugel7c@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago

The method behind the road blocks is: Block road to hold normal people hostage -> normal people get angry and demand change -> government changes it's policy towards your demands. Yeah everyone knows climate change to be a problem but if nothing is being done despite that you have to apply pressure somewhere, so because Fridays for future moved the needle maybe minimally, by doing normal marches, you start to be the tiniest bit annoying by blocking streets without prior warning.

The very few people getting stuck in traffic from these protest are really just innocent bystanders but, they also need to change, and both the real targets, so politicians and rich people, have enough influence to easily shield themselves from the effect of protests, apart from maybe the private yet stoppages which the same groups also organised.

And at least here in Germany the media coverage about climate change is now much more frequent than before LG started blocking the streets. And the coverage is only interspersed by talking about the protests themselves not singularly about the protests. So there is at least some noticeable change.

These people don't do nothing, they are fighting for my right to live 60 more years in relative peace and prosperity, protests and civil disobedience is far from doing nothing. The political message that gets told whenever any of them is interviewed is certainly much more nuanced than the slogan as well. And the reason they are on the street to begin with is because they themselves also have few choices, if the people going out to the street had power apart from their time and body they would be and are using it towards that same goal, but obviously their power via other ways is insufficient.

All in all if you think you act efficiently and fairly towards climate change reversal/reduction, but write a comment defending your 45min car commute, you might be missing something.The lack of public transport in your city for example isn't solved by just continuing to use it without reflection about why it is that way, and honest investment into fixing it.

[-] SexyTimeSasquatch@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry but your explanation of the method just doesn't understand human beings. The drivers will get angry and demand change. The change they demand won't be about the climate. They aren't sitting in their cars going "hmm, maybe these people have a point". What they demand will be stopping protests that disrupt traffic.

[-] kugel7c@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry but you don't seem to understand human beings either. Just because drivers get angry and demand a crackdown doesn't mean a crackdown actually is feasible from the governments point of view. The drivers for which this is the reaction fundamentally don't matter to the protestors. What matters to the protestors is political change, the number of drivers they directly impact is small, the number of people being told climate change is an existential threat is disproportionately large. Which furthers their political goals on the whole, even if everyone hates them.

This entire argument is the same argument against every "civil" and not so civil protest, public disobedience or other dissent. BLM 202x FFF 2019, Antifa since 193x, LGBTQ movement, women's rights, they all get this same argument against them: Why won't you just be civil, why won't you play by the rules, why don't you try to gain sympathy from your political enemies.

As if that'd work, as if that'd be sufficient to keep your own freedom, live and livelyhood, inside of a system that tries to take it from you. How could you ever trust in the process when you've seen it fail time and time again, specifically for the issue that is of concern in your group.

This is the other human you failed to account for, the protestor that isn't going to stop, because they deeply believe their way of life is threatened in a way where a more direct confrontation is necessary. And they rightly understand that it's a confrontation with the entire system, not with some commuters on arbitrary streets.

[-] theKalash@feddit.ch 6 points 1 year ago

I’m sorry, but how are daily commuters not a huge part of the cause?

But daily commuters aren't really the problem in itself, it's the combustion engine cars. Blocking road also blocks people in EVs or even the ones taking the bus.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Keeping everything else the same but switching to EV is still really bad for the environment and bad for people.

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[-] WhiteHawk@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

That is not what gatekeeping is. Gatekeeping would be saying they aren't real climate activists or something like that.

[-] Rouxibeau@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

Look at this dude here gatekeeping gatekeeping. /s

[-] MeddlMoe@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago

Gluing yourself to roads (and damaging pieces of art) is the pinnacle of useless or even counterproductive activism.

You annoy everybody including those who agree with you. With a message that is new to nobody.

You bring no new argument or information to the table that could possibly convince those who don't agree with you.

You are literally sitting around doing nothing.

This is not activism, this is passivism.

It also does not help, when you fly to the maldives on vacation right afterwards or do other similar schizo things.

[-] afunkysongaday@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

People in my social circle defending stuff like this will say "it was worth it for the attention it got" and that's that. No further inquiry needed.

[-] Red_October@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

At that point you have to ask "Who didn't know about Climate Change, and what did they learn by being made late for work?"

[-] SwedishFool@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Which is insane, people will turn against the cause instead of joining it.

[-] raginghummus@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

You have to ask yourself what kind of person you are to turn against the "cause" of preventing societal collapse because you got inconvenienced for 10 minutes.

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[-] raginghummus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

What do you want them to do instead?

Just Stop Oil aren't coming with a message, they're coming with a demand. A very simple one that the science and international bodies are clear on.

They've had hundreds of media appearances, are regularly referenced by politicians and have hundreds of people getting involved (and often arrested).

In the short time they've been going they've achieved more than any orgs like Greenpeace etc.

"This is not activism, this is passivism" What a joke. Putting your body on the line, getting a criminal record is passivism? Do tell us what activism you're doing if that isn't.

"when you fly to the maldives on vacation right afterwards" Been hooked in by the right wing media good and proper.

No artwork was harmed.

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[-] redempt@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

it's not about convincing anyone anymore. we're well beyond that point. those who are not convinced can get fucked now. we need drastic action and it's not happening. disrupting the function of society to demand change is effective.

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[-] TwoGems@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

No, it is activism. It actively draws more attention to these causes, because attention drawing things like gluing yourself to a road attract the media to report on it. Sadly, if everyone just passively protests, it is not enough anymore.

Also, gluing yourself to the road that keeps the machines contributing to global warming from running on it is kind of the point.

Being nice doesn't work anymore. The world is actively burning. If anything, activists should be even more pissed than this, and angry at their leaders/elders for denying global warming.

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[-] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

Liberals have a massive problem with connecting with the general public. They seem to pick all the worst ways to try to further their cause. They picks methods to protest that end up turning off people who would otherwise side with their cause.

You pick rush hour traffic when people are exhausted and simply trying to get home to block entire highways to protest environmental causes?? Really? You thought that would endear your cause to these people who are now stuck there? All you are doing is building anger and resentment. A few months back, there was some guy who needed to meet with his parole officer within a certain amount of time. He was stuck in this intentionally created traffic jam. If he was late for his meeting for any reason, he would be thrown back in prison. He was pleading with the protestors to let him go and they wouldn't budge.

Similar deal with groups like PETA. They always have this in-your-face attitude that gets under people's skin. I think most people would consider themselves animal lovers, so how does an organization supposed aimed at the ethical treatment of animals screw up their messaging so badly? That organization always finds the worst ways to spread their message. There was that story months back on how they essentially stole some homeless guy's dog. The poor guy had no other possessions and clearly cared for his companion, and yet they took the dog away from him because he wasn't able to give it the home that they felt it deserved. What an absolute douchebag move and if I recall correctly the authorities sided with the guy and he got his dog back. But why would you do that? You cause more harm than good.

Causing more harm than good is a common theme amongst many of these left-leaning organizations. It is very frustrating to watch since to a large degree I, as well as many others, would tend to agree with the general theme of what the organization is trying to do. Just don't do it that way.

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[-] MinekPo1@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Reminder that ~~until~~ while profit is the only metric companies are judged on, they will continue destroying our planet.

[-] 520@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

until profit is the only metric companies are judged on, they will continue destroying our planet.

I think you meant while

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[-] Noodle07@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

It still does nothing, just burn down refineries instead

[-] crypticthree@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I think that might generate greenhouse gasses

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[-] Holzkohlen@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

Holy fuck the comments. Is it this community or people who came from elsewhere? Jesus what a shit show

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[-] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

I protest by kicking dogs end starting forest fires. Thanks for supporting me unconditionally as long as we have the same goals.

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this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
293 points (83.2% liked)

The memes of the climate

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The climate of the memes of the climate!

Planet is on fire!

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