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[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 152 points 6 months ago

This horseshit again? Physical product available for independent analysis, or it didn't happen.

It's not like the Chinese are famous for lying about the specs on things they manufacture or anything. Every week we hear about some Chinese company poised to "revolutionize" the EV with pie-in-the-sky range figures and yet the market continues to remain resolutely un-revolutionized.

And as usual, this article harps on "range" as if that's not an easily fudged figure. The real numbers we need to see are watts per volume, or watts per mass. And number of charge cycles tolerated, and how many before it loses what percentage of capacity. Any idiot can claim to make a 1,300 mile, 2,000 mile, 5,000 mile, 1,000,000 mile battery pack -- just make the pack bigger, or the vehicle lighter, or both. That tells us nothing meaningful whatsoever about the battery chemistry itself. Advertising us what hypothetical ranges someone thinks a pack made of these "could" build is meaningless. We could build a 1300 mile battery pack right now with LiFePo cells if we wanted to, via the simple expedient of filling a dump truck with the things.

[-] Crozekiel@lemmy.zip 15 points 6 months ago

My guess is it's just a car with a battery 5 times bigger than their comparison vehicle, can't do over 30, go up a hill, or pass any safety standards.

Or it's fictional.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 months ago
[-] Cheesus@lemmy.world 21 points 6 months ago

Not Toyotas first time either Toyota has said their solid state batteries are just around the corner.

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2010/12/toyota-announces-4-layer-all-solid.html?m=1

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 11 points 6 months ago
[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 7 points 6 months ago

All the while lobbying anti EV policies around the world.

[-] dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

That's because Toyota is trying to put all their eggs in the hydrogen basket. Toyota is the only brand that really has a functional consumer-available hydrogen fuel cell car and I think they're stuck in sunk cost fallacy mode with that technology.

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[-] Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Shit I already have one up on the Chinese. I have invented an all electric rocket capable of boosting humans into LEO.

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 5 points 6 months ago

Thank you for typing out my brain squiggles.

[-] billwashere@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Exactly. It’s like an article I saw about some new internet tech that was “X times faster than broadband”. Broadband is a type of transmission using multiple frequency carrier waves to transmit data. It ain’t a speed.

Wh/kg or yes maybe volume Wh/cm^3…

The only other thing I’d care about it charge speed. Maybe it doesn’t last as long but I can fully charge in 10 seconds? Yeah I’m interested. Hell I’ve never had a car yet get the estimated miles per gallon on the sticker. It’s all bistromathics as far as I’m concerned.

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[-] ilmagico@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

The real numbers we need to see are watts per volume, or watts per mass

You have to chase it down, following the link to electrek.co, but then it says: "the prototype cells house an energy density of 720 Wh/kg"

(of course, I'm just stating what is claimed, no idea how true)

[-] GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca 4 points 6 months ago

Chase it down? It says 720 Wh/kg in the thumbnail image.

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[-] BigTrout75@lemmy.world 53 points 6 months ago

Never to be heard about again

[-] chronicledmonocle@lemmy.world 31 points 6 months ago

If the company is able to scale this technology large enough for consumer vehicles while keeping prices down, it could easily double the range of the farthest-driving EVs on the road today.

That's a big IF. TL;DR: They haven't developed a means of making this scalable and able to be mass manufactured. Until they do, this is another "revolutionary" battery tech that may or may not actually be used due to cost of production. Most likely in the "not" category.

If you want to make EVs more popular, make them with Sodium-Ion batteries that are cheaper than ICE vehicles. They'll sell better as a result.

Hardly anybody needs an EV with more than 200 miles of range if they're plugging in each night. Most people's commute is round-trip sub-50 miles. "Range anxiety" is 95%+ of the time a "problem" that stupid people have for their theoretical future that never actually happens. Most people are impractical idiots.

[-] CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml 18 points 6 months ago

Range anxiety isn't about your daily commute, it's about the few times a year road trip you make across multiple states to see family on holidays. Having to stop and charge every 150 miles (as I wouldn't trust letting it go below 50) sucks if you're trying to go 500+ miles. Owning a gas car taking up space in your garage and costing you taxes and registration just to use a handful of times a year is wasteful. Renting a car is an option, but it's cumbersome and if you plan to stay a while, expensive. I would not want an EV with less than 300 miles range. You have to factor in worst case scenarios as well, sometimes it gets dreadfully cold and windy in the winter. When it's -10F and the wind is howling you're cranking the (usually resistive) heat and driving head first into the wind kills your efficiency. These are real scenarios I have had to drive in my current car (Volt, so plug in hybrid) and my battery range can be halved (from 35+ miles under 20) in these worst case scenarios, but at least I can fall back on gas. I want to go EV for my next car but if I can't reliably make it to and from my parents' house 300 miles away on a bad winter's Christmas break then it's just not a feasible option yet, even if my drive to work is maybe 15 miles round trip. Also, charging station density is an issue. I would need to go half way to their house, 150 miles, to reach a charging station. You can't just stop anywhere to recharge if you have a low range EV.

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[-] billiam0202@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

Hardly anybody needs an EV with more than 200 miles of range if they're plugging in each night.

Speaking of big IFs. Not everybody lives where a charger is convenient or can have one installed in their residence.

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[-] Gregorech@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

Range anxiety is in the what if scenario, can I go from Los Angeles to Las Vegas on one charge, batteries need to last longer and be cheaper or charge quicker. being universal and swappable wouldalso work.

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[-] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 4 points 6 months ago

We're considering a new car (current car is an old econobox that's been to the moon), and range anxiety does factor in for the "weekend adventure" use case. We live in CA, and something like a trip to Yosemite or Tahoe requires refuelling/charging. But these places can get inundated with weekend warriors (like us!), who are all on the same schedule. We've had friends who have had stressful incidents e.g. charging in Yosemite valley, or on the way back from Tahoe. Add a toddler in the mix and it gets even less fun.

Not insurmountable, but infrastructure and timing are still not as good as for dinosaur blood.

For 95% of the time though yeah


commuting, single-day adventures, or bopping around the city would be no problem at all.

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[-] Reygle@lemmy.world 30 points 6 months ago

Takes deep breath

MmmmmmBULLSHIII

[-] ryrybang@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

Ha, why was this downvoted? Sketchy website "reports" proprietary Chinese research firm's accomplishment by rehashing the firm's press release about an unbelievable claim with no other evidence. This got more red flags than the beach before a hurricane.

At best, this is something they actually did approximate in some kind of lab setting that might be years and years away from being some kind of marketable product.

The (translated) press release even has a stench all on its own:

It is expected to fundamentally solve the battery life and safety anxiety of traditional lithium-ion batteries.

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[-] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

Powered by the cold fusion process they unveiled last year.

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[-] Gingerlegs@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago

For some reason this reminds me of a cheap Chinese knockoff rotary tool I got from Amazon which the instructions said: “use until loud bang and smoke. Then replace.”

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 months ago

Most I use don't give any warning at all, so that's a step up.

[-] Norgur@kbin.social 23 points 6 months ago

Our weekly "miracle battery that can <insert absurdly high claim here>" give us today.

[-] jordanlund@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago

Take EVs out of the equation and the ramifications of this tech (or Toyota's) is huge, if true.

Imagine an electric wheelchair you only had to charge monthly, or that could run on one charge effectively forever.

[-] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 7 points 6 months ago

First they need Toyota to test their chemistry and develop their battery production system....it's part of the way Chinese companies develop technology.

If Toyota can do it, China will too! A win-win!

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Funny how that works...

China is always just behind the west (or Japan in this case)... And never ahead. I wonder why that could be?

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[-] HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

Every day a new revolutionary battery. Where in reality

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[-] Grass@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 months ago

Instead of this we need EVs that aren't fucking massive.

[-] bilb@lem.monster 4 points 6 months ago
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[-] ShaunaTheDead@kbin.social 4 points 6 months ago

It seems like this vehicle comes with (as far as I know) the first solid state battery in a commercial vehicle which is HUGE news if true! I'm slightly skeptical because of this claim coming from the Chinese government, but who knows, it would be a huge boon for all of humanity if they've figured out solid state batteries.

The huge benefits we'll all see are increased capacity so batteries last longer, and INSANELY fast charge times. You could recharge your car to 100% in the same time as it takes to fill it up with gas currently.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago

Toyota is promising 700-800 miles range soonish (3 years?), and I believe them a lot more than the CCP.

I don't believe either though, but I do think Toyota is more trustworthy in general. I'll wait until I see an actual product with independent reviews.

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[-] calabast@lemm.ee 4 points 6 months ago

If we just attached a generator to the battery industry, all these revolutions would solve our energy needs!

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this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
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