is the man or bear thing rhetorically or optically the perfect feminist meme that is beyond criticism? no.
but is it leaps and bounds better at getting men to understand the material consequences of patriarchy on the physical and emotional health of women than that stupid “kill all men” meme from last decade? definitely.
The image you posted has a good sentiment, and I don't think it's effective as a meme itself. What will make it stick in the viewer's mind? To me it doesn't have a joke and doesn't make enough sense to convey a new insight.
You're right, feminism is for everyone. How does the introduction of Bell Hooks explain that or prove it to the reader? Who is the new character in the bottom right corner? Their instant agreement with Bell doesn't make sense given the preceding text.
ur confused and thats my fault sorry. by “this meme” i was referring to the man vs bear thing. the body text is about the popular in-joke going around.
First just want to reinforce I'm only commenting in the spirit of "how could this thought be propagated more effectively" and hope that comes across.
But no, I think I understood the general premise. The image you're posting is referring to the trend of women being given a hypothetical situation where they can choose to encounter a bear or a man in the woods, right? And some men are angry that any woman would choose a bear over a man.
I took the image you posted to be an attempt to convey that it's not unreasonable for women to do so, and also introduce people to the thought that patriarchy is harmful to both men and women. What about something like this image?
I tried to work in:
Also I have to say one thing that was effective about the original post is at least for me I looked up Bell Hooks and read a little. The image I made doesn't work in a reference to her, not sure how to do that effectively. I also think there could easily be other memes dedicated to illustrating how men are harmed by the patriarchy. It's a complicated subject so showing it clearly would be a service.
thank you for sharing. i feel like you might not be aware of the already established format that i am using here. yours is good too and i encourage you to post it but i do find my post to be quite effective as it uses a scheme that is already familiar to most viewers.
I was discussing this whole "safer with a bear" thing with my wife earlier, and she agreed that it was more about the bear will almost always just fuck off and leave you alone. Imo, the problem is the lack of social (third) spaces in the West, particularly anglo-North America. The only places left where you can encounter a potential romantic partner are in their home or in a place of business, and both are generally unacceptable for romantic solicitation. We've even managed to largely flush the Internet as a meaningful third space. So, folks are left with the choice of committing a social faux pas or being lonely, which is kind of a shit choice.
If we brought back third spaces whose sole purpose was socializing and community-building, we'd probably see stuff like the "safer with bear" sentiment disappate.
valid insight, maybe not the full picture, but still valid.
important to know that the vast majority of perpetrators of sexual violence are acquaintances of the victim, and aren’t strangers. so third spaces might certainly help, but don’t address the primary issue.
I would add though, that (a) those statistics do exclude non-violent sexual harassment (which is more likely from strangers), and (b) that sexual violence is massively underreported, especially when the perpetrator is unknown, since the chances of anything being able to be done about it are extremely low
I would agree but stipulate, unpaid third places. Third places still exist, they're just all monetized. Hang out at the movie theater, gotta buy a ticket, hang out at a concert, gotta buy a ticket, hang out anywhere around town, you're loitering and there's nothing really there, hang out at the mall, everyone's trying to sell you stuff and there's only just stuff to buy. There's maybe the park and the library left, which aren't exactly the most hot of spots.
I'm so glad to see this posted. The whole meme of bear vs man made me feel at odds and while I saw what the point was that it tried to raise it still didn't really do a great job to me. After a lot of thinking about it and discussing it in other threads I finally understood what I feel is the issue. While the answer given by most (if not all) women is shocking and shows the feeling of uncertainty and unsafeness the question is framed in such a way that it creates division and sexism. The problem is not what women are answering, the issue is that it puts men on the other side without any more thought. It divides us into women vs either men or bears. I'm not a woman, I'm not a bear, and I don't want to be a man seen as a danger. I understand the issue and I want to be part of the solution and create a safer world for everyone.
This whole topic wouldn't have made me see the problem if it wasn't for the effect that other ways to raise awareness have had in the past. For me the greatest method to raise awareness was the #metoo movement. That's when I could see the issue and what kind of effect it has. It was a movement that didn't automatically make me feel excluded, it was a movement that raised awareness of the victims, but it didn't have to be only women, also men that had been victims could raise it if they felt empowered by it. It was horrifying seeing the spread of it, and then there must be all the ones that didn't say anything. That's a movement I can get behind, that's the way to raise awareness. Since then I try to be more aware of the kind of behavior that creates those feelings of unsafeness for women and if I would ever notice something done by others I'd try to step up. The whole man vs bear is terrible at doing the same.
Billionaires are laughing in their private jets while people bicker over stupid memes about gender.
Funny, but don’t ever forget the #MeToo movement.
Awareness and advocacy may seem pointless until it precipitates in holding the oppressors accountable. Next time, hopefully, it will be even more significant.
Funny, but don't forget the Occupy Wall Street movement.
The ruling class will stop at nothing to maintain their grip on power.
Billionaires are laughing in their private jets
I think the sad thing is that they generally tend to be pretty unhappy from what I've seen
Reading bell hooks back in the day made me interested in understanding feminism. Things like the bear makes me go do other things and care less.
easy solution is to read bell hooks today too :)
You know, that's a good idea.
I feel like this exchange from 30 Rock is relevant here:
I forget the exact context for the scene, but Kenneth disagrees with Jack and objects that he [Kenneth] is also a white man. Jack corrects him that he is not and is, socio-economically speaking, an inner-city Latina.
Jack represents the patriarchy/ruling money class in the show.
is it rhetorically or optically the perfect feminist meme that is beyond criticism? no.
Honestly, I think the biggest problem with the argument is men have been having very serious discussions for probably millenia about what animals they could and could not beat in a fight. And it is implicitly known that the guy who comes in saying he could beat a bear is way up his own ass. Now here comes a meme appearing to imply that men could beat a bear in a fight, and the urge to correct is strong.
I understand and agree with the sentiment, but I also want you to know you can't beat a bear in a fight, but will gladly discuss what animals you might win against.
What about a Cheetah?
It is implicitly known that the guy who comes in saying he could beat a bear is way up his own ass.
This is good insight into the cultural context that led into this.
I think it varies wildly individual to individual. For example, some of my personal experience/knowledge is that while I can never beat a bear, bears may be discouraged, scared, and shouted down from attacking with proper preparation and training - a luxury that women do not have against men.
Another nuance I saw someone mention is that if I get attacked by a bear, at least I’m fucking dead and I don’t have to live to deal with the psychosocial horror of having to convince a cop, judge or jury, friends or family that I wasn’t “asking for it,” underscoring the damage that a victim-blaming culture has on women.
Just in case someone else didn't explain (or i'm the one that missed something) this meme is actually referencing the recent internet hubbub of: women were asked if they were hiking alone, would they rather run into a strange man or a bear, and many women picked the bear.
It's not about fighting, though. It's actually implied that a bear would either be less agressive, or at least: less cruel.
Which is why framing the concept in a context that is parallel to one already very familiar to men (what animal is a bigger threat) has caused such misunderstanding.
I think a man would be more likely to recognise a woman as a woman.
A bear doesn't care. The bear sees the woman as a human, and acts accordingly.
So yeh, the bear would be more predictable.
Imagine if humans treated all humans as human.
bears don't rape and kidnap women. People - overwhelmingly men - do.
I don't understand at all where fighting came into this. Am a man.
Omg you re the first I see that understand that its more the urge to correct than an politic or genre idea. Thx also I could win against a cheetah I think . can I use stone or stick?
in a critical situation like this, finding another human at all is probably riskier than any animal.
most animals will just fuck off while humans will remember you and find a way to fuck you for their gain. all that in a smart way that you wont be able to stop with just a pointy stick or something.
If I was lost in the woods, a human would be more likely to have cell phone service or know the way out. And realistically, it’s just going to be some hiker or birder, which from what I’ve seen are generally welcoming groups.
most animals will just fuck off while humans will remember you and find a way to fuck you for their gain.
I gotta disagree. In my experience, most humans will also fuck off.
But its a numbers game. We meet a lot of humans and some of them provoke intense experiences that are deeply memorable. However, we almost never meet any bears.
Honestly most humans will be centered at escaping the forest if they don't know where to go, or guiding you out if they do. That's it.
False, Bell Hooks never wore chokers
yeah im so sorry 😞 tried to find a wojack that looks like her but i acknowledge i fell short
Its okay buddy
Who draws these wojacks?
Bottom left might be one of my favourite wojaks yet. I love all the different depictionsof this meme!!
Depends what you mean by feminism if you mean feminism as equality for all then great.
If you mean feminism as you see a lot of today then maybe not. The fact you never see feminism calling out shitty, toxic female behaviour shows a lot of the picture is missing.
Holding up everything that lives under the feminism banner as infallible is dangerous. Plenty of low income white guys have been pushed aside for feminism and then told they have all this privilege for living in a place with no economic prospects and they are responsible for how the world was made before they were born.
if you see “feminists” excusing shitty behavior, call them the fuck out for it. im not holding everything under the banner of feminism infallible and you shouldn’t either.
but bad feminists don’t excuse you inserting yourself into a conversation women are having about their lived experiences. and that is precisely what you are doing.
women are expressing that they have been threatened and hurt, and you are stomping in with some vague “NUH UH a feminist was mean once or twice” to shut up those women. this is, and i don’t say this lightly, despicable.
I do. Then you normally get called sexist by other women.
Like I said you never see feminism, or almost never see, women accepting there is ever anything wrong with feminism. Women need to take more responsibility over shitty women's behaviour.
1. Be civil
No trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour
2. No politics
This is non-politics community. For political memes please go to !politicalmemes@lemmy.world
3. No recent reposts
Check for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month
4. No bots
No bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins
5. No Spam/Ads
No advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.