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15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.
If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.
While I agree with your sentiment, ~2/3rds of it according to the article isn't being given to them but being available in loans. So the article should say $5.5 given away, and $10 billion made avaliable to pay back.
Loans are costs too. It's tying up capital that could be used elsewhere
It's more like investment, especially if it saves jobs. It can be a win-win. Companies have it easier time switching to EV manufacturing, which helps those companies and the environment. Manufacturing jobs are saved, both giving a living to a lot of people and helping communities and saving on benefit payments.
Could of course backfire or go to shit but investments like this from states seem like a very wise move imo.
It’s tying up capital that could be used elsewhere
I'm not sure that's the case when you're the government and can and do print money. Not every rule of finance applies to the entity that gives credibility to the currency in the first place. This is also why the concept of governmental debt is much less meaningful than the concept of individual debt.
The government is limited in monetary policy by inflation.
Of course, the Petrodollar doesn't really have this problem, but it ends up exporting inflation around the world.
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Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.
This isn't going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn't. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.
Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It's called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We're so fucked.
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Stopping climate change by...
Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?
Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?
How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?
Nah, let's just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I'm sure that'll fix everything.
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We pay at least twice. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?
(/S)
"oh it's expensive to make electric vehicles so we have to upsell them at 50k+, even though we get government support"
I really want to go electric, but the milage just isn't there yet for me, and add in the charging time and new maintenance routines of swapping out those batteries. I just haven't done enough research.
I don't think there's anything bad with giving the manufacturers money to switch their entire production facilities to electric, I just hope the government actually understands what those funds are being used for, unlike the money they gave our ISPs for infrastructure upgrades that went to waste.
The shells may be similar or the same but inside it would be like asking an apple orchard to change all their trees to oranges, and these funds will help expedite that.
I get 300 mile range and can recharge from 20-80% in under a half hour (a road trip lunch break).
It’s getting there quickly!
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We will always give money to our industries to make up for the lack of long term planning in our system. I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.
I certainly do not understand what concept of fucking justice that is related to.
This concept of justice:
higher scores will be given to projects that are likely to retain collective bargaining agreements and/or those that have an existing high-quality, high-wage hourly production workforce, such as applicants that currently pay top quartile wages in their industry.
And that's good. But what would be better for the planet would be building up a public transportation system so robust that cars are unnecessary outside of rural areas.
I was just listening to a Parenti lecture where he talked about an interaction he had with someone who had been in high up in East Germany. He basically asked, “why did you put out those crappy little two cylinder engine cars?” And the ex-officials response was essentially, “we didn’t want to put them into cars at all, we thought if we provided an adequate public transportation system, that people would be satisfied, but they weren’t so we had to do what we could.”
I agree with you fully, that public transport would be the ideal solution, far and away above electric vehicles, which just providing one for every household in the US would require such s massive amount of material extraction that it by itself will cause significant climate outcomes, but, we must find a way around the impulse for private personal transportation that exists within people, and I don’t know how to do so. Moving without the mass of people could lead to rejection and reactionary movements. Moving with the mass will lead to climate destruction. How do we work with the masses to come to a compromise that allows the support of the masses, while reducing the number of private vehicles to nearly zero?
neoliberalism in a nutshell
Maybe as a miniscule offset to the ungodly sums still being spent to prop up the fossil fuel industry.
I was hoping for a cash for clunkers 2.0
First the charging infrastructure needs to be better
It’s well on its way. And most people charge at home day to day.
That’s a great way to do it, but that solution excludes a lot of people renting or in condo HOAs that don’t have easy access to overnight charge points in their complex’s or city’s lots. Hopefully those missing pieces are addressed soon so EVs feel like an option to everyone driving an ICE car, not just homeowners with garages.
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That would be amazing
Cash for Clunkers impacted the used car market for well over a decade.
Wasn't that part of the expectation?
"Strong and just"? You're not going to win over fascists by using their keywords. Maybe tone it down a little for those of us who still recall "Operation Shock and Awe" and the "War on drugs" and "The PATRIOT Act" and all the associated "collateral damage".
It just makes me think there's something hidden in there of which we should all be very suspicious, even if there might not be.
Note: I welcome less environmental damage and reskilling workers into sustainable energy industries and products. I hope this bill isn't the result of industry lobbying by EV manufacturers, but I note the lack of environmental goals contrasts with the large amounts of money being put into industry grants and loans.
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this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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