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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

EDIT: AOC is doing what the unions wanted her to do.

https://hexbear.net/post/236928/comment/3033122

DISCLAIMER: Before you jump on me, the below post is to show how much of a dead end electoral politics is. You cannot vote in socialism.

But you should still vote in socialists. The more, the better. Building up the organisations needed to actually bring in socialism is much easier under a more left-adjacent government.


AOC and the other progressive Democrats did not vote for the anti-strike legislation because they’re liberals or hate workers or anything. Their vote was necessary to pass the 7 paid sick days bill. That was the agreement between the progressive and conservative Democrats.

But this nuance is fucking lost on people here. When you play the electoral game, you have to compromise. Every elected official will do so. AOC, Bernie Sanders etc. are not betraying the working class when they support such bills. They’re doing the best they can.

But it’s as if the people here don’t want the best. They just want empty gestures. And when people like AOC do the smart thing that would at least benefit some people, they act as if AOC is the same as Nancy Pelosi.

Guess who wants you to believe that? Guess who benefits from that? The Republicans. It’s grifters like Jimmy Dore and Infrared and Glenn Greenwald that push this rhetoric all to drive more leftists to either apathy or direct support for people like Tucker Carlson and DeSantis who are the “true” populists.

The vote passed by like over a hundred votes. The handful of progressive congresspersons couldn’t have stopped it. But what they could do, was get the other bill with the paid sick leave passed in exchange for a vote that was already going to pass. I mean, it’s like people are forgetting that the latter vote barely passed. Almost no Republican voted for it.

Why? Because the Republicans hate the working class more than the Democrats.

Please don’t forget that.

TLDR: AOC, even if it doesn’t seem like it at times, is better than most Democrats and all Republicans. A Congress and Senate filled with people like AOC will be exponentially more conducive to implementing socialism than any other. It will still not bring in socialism. Socialism can only be achieved by a revolution. But creating the conditions and the organisations and the class consciousness necessary for that revolution, is easier under a social democratic government than any other.

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[-] 4zi@hexbear.net 4 points 2 years ago

Babe wake up, new LiberalSocialist session just dropped

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago
[-] 4zi@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Why are you replying to literally everyone in the thread with this, idc about electoralism

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago

It’s important. It proves I was right.

[-] 4zi@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

MODS!!! MODS!!!! FLAG ON THE PLAY!!! I WAS RIGHT!!!!!! MODS!!!!

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[-] Dawn_Beveridge@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

> going to bed

> sees post

> sees content

> sees LiberalSocialist

:joker-dancing: Hexbear time

<3 you comrade
Edit: No for real though I :meow-hug: you comrade. You really look like you've a big heart and a fair mind, and you're honestly not wrong on most of your points.
People here will give you a hard time, but that's cause we've been here for years. We've had this whole thing 'figured out' for a while, and here you are, you've joined less than two months ago and now you're expected to have learned the exact Hexbear mantra since.

I am glad you haven't left this site, you're a kind of energy I can really appreciate.

K tho I did say I was going to bed. :sleepi:

[-] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Sleep tight comrade I'm about to read theory and then pass out.

[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

You cannot vote in socialism.

Red Fash tankies confirmed.

On a serious note, AOC, Bernie, and the Squad have time and time again proven themselves to be social imperialists. I'll stop criticizing them when they stop trying to murder the Global South.

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago
[-] Tankiedesantski@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

Well gee, if first world labor aristocrats who already make more in an hour than hundreds of millions of people make in a week get their sick days, all is well in the world.

[-] booty@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

You know, I've decided I'm not even going to finish reading this one. Your open liberalism is getting old. Commit to communism or go away.

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago

I am a communist. I am an anarchist. I am a Marxist. I am a socialist. My disagreements are based purely on those terms.

[-] EndOfHerstory@hexbear.net 3 points 2 years ago

New site tagline just dropped.

[-] ilyenkov@hexbear.net 2 points 2 years ago

Okay, now I'm finally convinced this is a bit account.

[-] betelgeuse@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Cuomo is a hexbear user?

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

FIFA guy be like

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

There goes my last lonely sliver of doubt that you're not just fucking around :PIGPOOPBALLS:

[-] Sen_Jen@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism :stalin-approval:

[-] wombat@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism

[-] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago
[-] TheaJo@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

User makes worst take of all time, asked to leave own struggle session

[-] a_fanonist_hexagon@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

We will not distract them with such empty questions as who will be elected from which political party. All political parties, as things stand, will support the power complex. Any individual elected will either be a supporter of the established politics — or an “individual.” What would help us, in fact, is to allow as many right-wing elements as possible to assume “political” power. The warnings that “our thrusts toward self-determination will bring on fascism” are irresponsible—or better, unrealistic. The fascists already have power. The point is that some way must be found to expose them and combat them. An electoral choice of ten different fascists is like choosing which way one wishes to die. The holder of so-called high public office is always merely an extension of the hated ruling corporate class. It is to our benefit that this person be openly hostile, despotic, unreasoning.

George Jackson, Blood in my Eye

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

That’s just wrong and and this kind of rhetoric only hurts the most marginalised amongst us. The Democrats are not the ones passing anti-trans and anti-abortion bills.

There is a different between Democrats and Republicans and the only people who benefit from hiding that fact are the Republicans.

[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Allow me to be the first to say:

Username checks out

Thank you

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago
[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Provide evidence for the following claim:

“But creating the conditions and the organisations and the class consciousness necessary for that revolution, is easier under a social democratic government than any other.“

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago

Well, we’ve never had socialism in a developed country so there’s no direct evidence for it.

But it makes sense. A country with a social democratic government and institutions is closer to socialism. It’s a smaller jump from one to the other, than it would be under any other government.

[-] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

Vibes based path to socialism is not convincing me to ease up on the Democratic Party

[-] corgiwithalaptop@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

To the person reading this, I love you

[-] Flinch@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago
[-] sexywheat@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago

@LiberalSocialist you make some very valid points in this thread (although I did not have the wherewithal to read all 370 comments and counting). Overall I think you're correct but I do think it's important to criticise AOC and the rest of "The Squad" when they do reactionary shit like voting in support of funding neo-nazis in Ukraine (which AOC did), supplying weapons to Israel's apartheid state (which AOC also did) or, in this case, voting to legislate the railworkers back to work against their will without supporting their full demands.

She didn't have to vote for the strike-breaking bill (and it would have passed anyway), and the 7 days of paid sick leave is half of what the unions have demanded, so she's only doing some of what the unions have asked her to do.

I do agree, though, that it's important to vote in socialists whenever possible. We have no choice but to work with what we have for now, and constantly build and demand better and more.

AOC is probably not an actual socialist (as many in this thread will be quick to point out) but there's no denying that she has done a huge part in shifting the overton window substantially to the left in American politics.

[-] LiberalSocialist@hexbear.net 0 points 2 years ago

Thanks for your comment. These thread so quickly go out of hand, so I don’t fault you for not reading every comment.

I’m 100% for criticising AOC and other progressive politicians. But it has to be measured and appropriate.

It cannot be done in such a way that boosts the countless politicians who are so much worse. And the criticism has to be aimed at improving the situation, whether by pushing progressive politicians to the left, or by creating/boosting left orgs and platforms etc.

The moderate and right wings of capitalism want to take down the left flank (progressive politicians) and we have to be wary of that and prevent that.

[-] crime@hexbear.net 1 points 2 years ago

These thread so quickly go out of hand

Tends to happen when you reply with the same comments to every single commenter

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this post was submitted on 01 Dec 2022
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chapotraphouse

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