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Sen. Mark Warner Forming a Group Of Democratic Senators To Call On Biden To Drop Out (www.washingtonpost.com)

submitted 4 months ago by TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[-] BassTurd@lemmy.world 47 points 4 months ago

Flipping the candidate 4-5 months before the election is the dumbest fucking idea. Other than the obvious legal battles and terrible optics, the logistics of getting a unified candidate and get that information out to the public before the election is impossible.

Sen Mark Warner might as well be a Republican for attacking the Dem candidate. It won't do anything good, it will fail, and it will be used to attack Biden going forward. Being critical and shooting yourself and country in the face don't have to be the same thing.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago

Sen Mark Warner might as well be a Republican

I would say that any one suggesting the Democrats stick with a candidate polling in the low thirties might as well be a Republican.

Republicans need the Democrats to stick with Biden. They literally are fucked if the Democrats pick almost any other candidate. 70% of Americans think Biden is mentally unfit to be President.

70%.

Thats an insane number. Biden is over. He can't win with numbers like that.

There aren't going to be any legal battles and its going to be the best earned media the Democrats will ever get in the history of the party if they go to a contested convention. The presidential election is nothing at all like a smaller regional race. Whoever ends up being the candidate will get literally billions of dollars in earned media by simply "becoming" the candidate. The whole drama of it suddenly engages what is currently a completely disengaged voting populace.

So no.

[-] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 15 points 4 months ago

Whoever ends up being the candidate will get literally billions of dollars in earned media by simply “becoming” the candidate. The whole drama of it suddenly engages what is currently a completely disengaged voting populace.

This is the most important bit IMO.

At this point, I don't even think of dumping Biden as just a satisfactory fallback position, but as a winning strategy, and specifically for this reason.

It's not as if Biden suddenly became a weak candidate the night of the debate - he's been a weak candidate all along. As I just said earlier, the only thing that changed with the debate is that more people came to that conclusion.

And all it would take to motivate the base - to get Democrats enthused in a way that they haven't been since 2008 - is to throw open the nomination. That would bring the race a sense of excitement and hope that hasn't just been missing since the debate, but all along.

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

At this point, I don’t even think of dumping Biden as just a satisfactory fallback position, but as a winning strategy, and specifically for this reason.

I see it as a prerequisite for victory.

It’s not as if Biden suddenly became a weak candidate the night of the debate - he’s been a weak candidate all along.

The debate just made it undeniable. The excuses for his performance at the debate have been even more embarrassing.

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[-] hypnoton@discuss.online 5 points 4 months ago

I agree with just about everything you say, but I have one question:

And all it would take to motivate the base - to get Democrats enthused in a way that they haven't been since 2008 - is to throw open the nomination. That would bring the race a sense of excitement and hope that hasn't just been missing since the debate, but all along.

What do you mean by "throw open," exactly?

I would love a real second primary with an array of candidates not all of whom were preselected by the billionaires. And a large inclusive debate or two. Is that what you are suggesting?

Or maybe you mean let the billionaires and their purchased Dem elites make a selection for us in a smoke filled room behind closed doors?

[-] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 5 points 4 months ago

I would love a real second primary with an array of candidates not all of whom were preselected by the billionaires. And a large inclusive debate or two. Is that what you are suggesting?

Yes.

Sorry - I thought "throw open" was a commonly understood phrase.

It means to open something suddenly and completely - no incremental stages and no limitations - just immediately from closed to fully and completely open.

[-] hypnoton@discuss.online 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I know what the phrase means but I didn't dare to believe such an optimistic soul could exist. You proved my doubts were unwarranted.

Very cool, and I support your idea 120%! I believe it is possible because the DNC just routinely makes up rules on the go, so nothing's stopping them from opening a second primary. I would be super interested if it were a truly open and a properly democratic primary.

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[-] fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 4 months ago

Worse... making a public campaign to make biden withdraw, even if not successful, is a terrible idea.

Honestly, the worst possible thing for the left.

Not only a lame duck candidate, but public infighting to undermine support.

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Is the left in the room with you right now?

There is no left.

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[-] kandoh@reddthat.com 3 points 4 months ago

I think a shotgun primary could really fire up the base. Let the new faces promise things that get people excited to vote instead of this grim responsibility we're feeling now

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[-] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 34 points 4 months ago

Downvote the news, but it still remains news.

For such a prominent Senator to have gone public, there must be a torrent of activity in private.

[-] paf0@lemmy.world 21 points 4 months ago

Refusing to see Biden's flaws is incredibly delusional. I understand a bit, running a new candidate could help Trump win. However, running a candidate with dementia will definitely help Trump win. We deserve a candidate with basic debate skills.

[-] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

There is a point of no return when public reception dictates further action and that preception will not reverse. I hate the idea, as I think history will look very kindly on Joe, and it's terrible what's happening. But, by my estimate we have reached that point.

[-] toomanypancakes@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

I'm sorry, he's done some good, but he's also continued delivering weapons to Israel for their genocide in Gaza. If he's looked at especially fondly in the future it'll be through rose tinted glasses.

Still voting for him over Trump, but let's not be ridiculous.

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[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 2 points 4 months ago

Isn't he already top 10? But his past administration, vs. him now... I dunno what to think. If he were elected, then his administration could continue, but that's a big "if" at this juncture.

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

There is a significant cohort of lemmings living in a gaslit fantasy where they've lost themselves in a gamblers fallacy around Biden as candidate. They'll come back around, much later, after he's replaced as candidate, and pretend they were never the person they were.

As far as the posturing and jockeying, game is on I suppose.

Any Democrats who can stand up and show leadership right now stand a very good chance of becoming the most powerful person in the world. Trump is a deeply unpopular candidate. It won't take much to expose his weakness for what it is, we just currently happen to have the weakest possible candidate. Swap the candidate, adopt the positions of the base, and whoever ends up being the nominee can coast into office.

[-] WarmSoda@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

My problem with the whole thing is there hasn't been anyone stepping up and saying how about me. I haven't seen any mention of any actual names whatsoever.

You gotta decide what else to make before you dump the water.

I could be wrong, idk.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

My problem with the whole thing is there hasn’t been anyone stepping up and saying how about me. I haven’t seen any mention of any actual names whatsoever.

Anyone who has enough name recognition to get into and be a competitor to Biden isn't going to turn traitor against the party's incumbent unless he explicitly bows out. If they're seen as ousting Biden... it's going to be a shit show of epic proportions. look at the criticism that phillips took. (And philips is basically a younger version of Biden.) In the primary, the only candidate to get on the ballot in more than half the states was Biden. Most got on around half the states, give or take.

Most of the states only had a ballot because they were legally obligated to. the 2024 Primary for the DNC wasn't a real primary.

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[-] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

Or, its very late in the game and this chaos causes the dems to splinter, leaving trump ripe for victory.

You act like you know exactly what will happen, when in reality things can end up pear shaped whether we stick with biden or get a new candidate.

Polls and MSM are focusing on biden, allowing trump to gain ground. Whatever is gonna happen needs to happen NOW.

[-] OpenStars@discuss.online 4 points 4 months ago

If he was merely sick, then one good press conference followed by a second debate might be able to turn things around, just enough, maybe?

But if not...

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[-] mortalic@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Who though... Comments like this are useless unless there is a valid replacement. So again... Who, or STFU.

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[-] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 3 points 4 months ago

Any Democrats who can stand up and show leadership right now stand a very good chance of becoming the most powerful person in the world. Trump is a deeply unpopular candidate. It won’t take much to expose his weakness for what it is, we just currently happen to have the weakest possible candidate. Swap the candidate, adopt the positions of the base, and whoever ends up being the nominee can coast into office.

I think this is rather obviously true. Many on the left have been pushing for a different, and presumably better, candidate from the beginning, so in a way, all that's changed since the debate is that many more have joined them. So really, all the Dems have to do is provide the people with that candidate, and it'll be a runaway.

BUT...

I'm starting to worry that the DNC is going to fuck it up yet again, and specifically because, just as was the case in 2016 and 2020, they're not only going to not adopt the positions of the base, but are going to instead manipulate the process in order to shove another establishment hack down our throats. And quite likely not even just any establishment hack, but the one that's already proven to be even less popular than Biden - Hillary Clinton.

This is a moment for the DNC to get out of the way and let the people come together and choose the candidate they want. That's the exact thing that will motivate the base, and in turn guarantee Trump's defeat.

I'm just afraid that the DNC won't be able to do that - that in their all-consuming self-centeredness and greed, they're going to fuck it up for all of us, yet again.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Your caution is well warranted.

The biggest mistake the DNC could make would be not taking the advantage that an open convention offers them. They desperately need to put out an air of at least 'presumed' democracy in the shocking un-democratic process which is Democratic elections. The delegates are all corporate, Biden/ Harris democrats. But at least put on a show of democracy. And build the theater a bit. Give the audience some action and some drama. Use the opportunity to build some headlines.

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[-] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

He has gone public? Because he hasn't said anything about this.

All I see are secondhand reports from anonymous sources, which is kind of the opposite of going public.

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[-] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 28 points 4 months ago

The same Mark Warner that is basically GOP with a (D) next to his name? Oh, like we wouldnt see through that

[-] elbarto777@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Plus Biden was elected, right? Like, Democratic voters chose him to be the Democratic candidate?

Can another party vote happen at this point?

Or is there another formal procedure for these circumstances that involve the people? (E.g. the people chose their top three preferred candidates?)

Otherwise, Indeed, that "democrat" asshole calling for this is part of the treason train.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

In which primary?

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[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 months ago

Last time we did that, we got Nixon.

Nice try, Comrade.

[-] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

People keep saying that while skipping over the fact that Robert Kennedy would probably have been the nominee and defeated Nixon if he hadn't been assassinated in June.

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[-] Beaver@lemmy.ca 24 points 4 months ago

Nah push for ranked voting instead corporate democrats

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this post was submitted on 05 Jul 2024

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