336
submitted 5 months ago by mozz@mbin.grits.dev to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 62 points 5 months ago

Most people engaged in politics have likely made up their mind, and anyone sufficiently disengaged will vote for the incumbent and be done with it. Biden is the incumbent, and they're not going to put forth a progressive.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 56 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yeah

The race is not people deciding between Biden and Trump, but people on both sides who have made up their minds deciding whether or not to vote

Coincidentally, there is an enormous effort to paint voting as not worthwhile, and Biden as not good enough to be worthwhile bothering to vote for, aimed at left wing voters

[-] knightly@pawb.social 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Actual left-winger here. We've been saying the USA deserves better than Biden since before the 2020 election. Don't lump us in with the centrists, liberals, and moderates who've only just pulled their heads out of the sand long enough to notice that the incumbent is expected to lose.

There's no point in starting to panic now, all this has been inevitable since the DNC won the right to rig their own primary after the disaster that was the "Her Turn" campaign in 2016. Either y'all start calling your reps and demanding a better option on the ballot, or start making preparations for the fascism and civil unrest in our future.

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[-] 2484345508@lemy.lol 16 points 5 months ago

Yes. Enormous efforts. “Genocide Joe” (the name) is part of that effort.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 14 points 5 months ago

There is one in this comments section

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[-] gatorgato@lemmy.world 37 points 5 months ago

Anyone sufficiently disengaged with Biden might just NOT vote. And then Trump wins. Heres a better framing of the question. Could anyone generate more voter disengagement than Biden?

[-] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

This is my worry too. They're not going to switch to trump, they'll either skip it or vote 3rd party.

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[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 45 points 5 months ago

Biden is cooked. But there is so much fear/exhaustion/disgust with Trump we are still in the margin of error.

Imagine if the Democrats ran somebody that anybody was actually positively excited about.

But that is not how the DNC works.

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[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 38 points 5 months ago

I'm absolutely sick of mainstream media trying to hose the democratic candidate by suggesting the guaranteed-suicidal act of switching out the incumbent. They know it's failed every time. They still bring that up as news.

Find something else controversial to pin your ad revenue onto.

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[-] jpreston2005@lemmy.world 31 points 5 months ago

The answer is Bernie Sanders in 2020 and in 2016. Now? Probably nobody.

[-] Wes4Humanity@lemm.ee 17 points 5 months ago

Bernie would still win. Just has to publicly recognize his old age while also showing that he's not senile like the other 2, agree to one term, pick a good young progressive VP, and start hammering away at progressive messaging. Probably outright tell the center Dems it's THEIR turn to hold their noses... Unless they want Trump to win.

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[-] NutWrench@lemmy.ml 31 points 5 months ago

The Democrats have had YEARS to endorse anyone who was born after the Battle of the Bulge. With the election less than 4 months away, it is WAY too late to pick Biden's successor.

They need to come with a campaign message that shows ordinary people why Biden is a better choice than Trump, which should be the easiest g*ddamn thing in the world.

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[-] Zeke@fedia.io 30 points 5 months ago

Honestly, we're basically just voting for Kamala when we vote for Biden.

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[-] doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 5 months ago

Considering the competition... I'd be willing to vote for Biden's dog.

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[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 5 months ago

Biden has the best chance of NOT beating Trump (I fear). He cannot change and as a known commodity will not generate new enthusiasm. Trump has generated all the outrage and rejection he is going to get. No new information is going to change that.

Someone else is an unknown. What happens if we switch is unknown. It may lose. But we are losing now.

But it could grab a LOT of press attention, generate enthusiasm, and break up the logjam of conservatism that runs national politics.

The whole point is that this is not a "dicey" or desperate thing to do when we are fighting for democracy and freedom. It is the ONLY thing to do when you are sure your current course loses.

We have to win.

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[-] LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago

Readily available for repubes to start yelling “democrats in disarray” “both sides are the same”. Hell, repubes don’t even have to do it. The mainstream media is already doing their bidding.

[-] FrostyTheDoo@lemmy.world 28 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's crazy to see the difference in tone CNN and other major new outlets have adopted when talking about Biden, vs. how they talk about Trump.

With Biden it's "What a national embarrassment, no way this man can lead in his current state, voting for him is nearly elder abuse and you should be ashamed of yourself."

With Trump it's "jeez get a load of this guy lol. He's just so silly with the things he says, who would take him seriously about the crazy stuff? Might be worth a vote?"

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 19 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

The press is stupid

Political people, mostly on the conservative side, figured out long ago that if you just pushed hard a particular framing and narrative, the majority of the American political press would just kind of go with it as opposed to upset the herd by presenting a different framing. Once you’ve set the boulder rolling in one direction, you can just kind of let it go and it’ll follow the same path on its own. And they practiced the technique until they got really good at it.

A fun exercise to see it is to read an article, but flip the party and subject of the article to the opposite side. Like some gaffe that Biden made, say that Trump made it, or vice versa. The tone will seem wildly off kilter in this really unusual way.

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[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 24 points 5 months ago

That’s all I’m saying. That’s all anyone is saying.

Take ego and hubris out of the equation. Who has the absolute best chance of beating the fascists?

That’s it. That’s the only question that really matters right now in the context of this upcoming election, if we want to stop Trump.

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[-] tomkatt@lemmy.world 22 points 5 months ago

I'm so sick of these articles and headlines about how Biden should step down.

DNC had years to figure this shit out and back another candidate, but instead we had seemingly rushed primaries with no real challengers. At this point with less than four months until the actual election, who the hell do they expect will be a better choice? Because nobody has stepped up to the plate, and for all the talk of how Biden should step down, there's been no discussion of who should step up in his place.

Just fucking back the man, unify, and rally to convince people to get out and vote. Best case scenario, we get a functional Biden, who is known for his work ethic and general attitude of doing the job without platitudes or bullshit. Alternative not so good cases are we get a diminished Biden who isn't effective at the job, but also isn't a fucking fascist, or Biden dies of natural causes at some point and we get a partial term of Harris as president.

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[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 5 months ago

right wingers and the corporate media absolute hate that Biden is one of the most pro worker, pro union, and pro labor presidents in recent history and will do anything to try and get back trump

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Oh sure, "now" they have to ask it but a year ago everything was hunky dory. Get fucked

[-] TheFrirish@jlai.lu 18 points 5 months ago

I'm not at all American and I honestly don't understand the American voting system but I will say this: basically anyone would do the job instead of Biden, it's shocking that someone in his state is allowed to run for presidency again.

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[-] LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net 17 points 5 months ago

So how do we answer this question in an analytical way that can be agreed upon by most or all factions in the party? Because right now I just see lots of people angrily shouting their totally unfounded opinions and assuming everyone who disagrees with them is insane or a shill. This type of dialogue is extremely unhelpful.

I will say that I do not know if Biden is the best person to beat Trump or if Harris is or if it’s someone else. But I think having the most unpopular incumbent in history who is struggling to mount a campaign makes it a reasonable question to ask.

If anyone has well-reasoned thoughts on this I welcome them but I really haven’t seen any serious attempt to answer this question yet. Perhaps it is unanswerable.

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[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

Yeah cause it's a great idea to change candidates 4 fucking months before the election.

[-] very_well_lost@lemmy.world 44 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

There have been plenty of presidential elections where the candidate wasn't known until the nominating convention in August. This whole "12 month election cycle" bullshit is a pretty new phenomenon.

Anyway, the absolute media shitstorm that will ensue if Biden is dropped from the ticket will more than make up for the late start to a new candidate's campaign — the new DNC nominee will dominate the news cycle for weeks without having to spend a dime.

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[-] aseriesoftubes@lemmy.world 24 points 5 months ago

Normally I’d agree, but this ain’t your average election. A Dem candidate younger than Biden could be out there pounding the campaign trail day after day, generating enthusiasm in a way that Biden now seems physically incapable of doing.

Plus, a large number of voters hate both candidates. A shiny new candidate would be exciting and unprecedented, and would get boatloads of attention. They could easily close the gap with Trump, despite what the polls say.

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[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

4 months is a massive amount of time. Other counties have their entire election cycle in half the time. America’s 1-2 year long presidential election cycle is so weird.

[-] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 12 points 5 months ago

well its a great idea for your opponent to push forward.

[-] SuperRecording@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 months ago

It's a bad idea not to when it'd be a guaranteed loss

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[-] blazera@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

The optics are shot, people have already heard dem leaders having meetings about his capabilities. The situations only going to deteriorate in the coming months as things are.

[-] Birdie@thelemmy.club 12 points 5 months ago

And yet, I and many others will vote for him. We cannot let Trump anywhere near the presidency. I honestly would vote for a dead frog over Trump. The staff that's in place is competent, have done well for us, and I believe they'll hold things together until Kamala takes over.

Of course we would all rather a much younger, charismatic candidate, but it is what it is.

At this point, I truly believe most Democratic voters understand the assignment.

[-] bamboo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 5 months ago

A rabid chimp wielding a machete would honestly be safer than another Trump presidency.

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[-] Omgboom@lemmy.zip 16 points 5 months ago

I still haven't seen anyone put forth a candidate worth throwing away Bidens incumbentcy advantage, Harris isn't a great option

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[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

We're too trapped in a bubble if we think the white, non college-educated suburban housewives in Pennsylvania and Ohio that ultimately swung the 2020 election to Biden would vote for A) A woman B) A black woman C) A black woman who's name sounds like "Obama".

This is a bad place. And not most people, but most of the people who vote regularly, are just bad, broken, selfish, frightened people.

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[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Earlier, in the day, when introducing Vladimir Zelensky, he called him “President Putin.”

Say what you will about whether he's able to beat the Mango Mussolini or not, but THAT has to be the biggest faux pas I've ever seen!

Had me laughing so hard I startled my cat 😂

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this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
336 points (83.9% liked)

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