Yeah imo this is the only way. Fediverse should be completely user-owned, we need to isolate any corporation that tries to get involved.

Pretty stupid to want to defederate an instance over one Trump troll, but not defederste Zuckerberg, the emperor of trolldom. Yes, pls do everything possible to keep Meta away.

Then block meta you don't need to leave make them leave you were here first we built this space not them don't surrender to meta

The whole point of open protocols is that anyone can use it. Just block any instance you don't like and you're good!

While I agree you can't buy it, I think one of the reasons why Meta is considering federation at all is because some not insignificant fraction of the 1 in the "90-10-1" social media model has left Meta's circles and is now active in the Fediverse. I think Meta wants their content and engagement. I also think this same group is probably going to be the first to leave for a Meta-free island of the Fediverse. If I'm right about this, Meta probably doesn't want to drive these users out. Should they rage farm the Fediverse, they inevitably will. Could be wrong of course.

I believe, with Authorized Fetch (what Mastodon calls secure mode) blocking intermediaries won't be needed, as instances will have to cryptographically "authorize" themselves to receive/send data, and you can just say "no" to any requests coming from threads.net, acting basically as a "defederation enforcement mode".

I could be wrong though, haven't caught up on the exact details.

FFS from Reddit to Facebook??? I am d‘losing all I can to avoid any of them!!!

Yeah, that's the Meta-free island scenario.

I agree with the sentiment, I'm not a fan of preemptively blocking meta on instance level, especially when everyone was touting about how the fediverse is corporation resistant and by design it is resilient because of it's horizontal nature, but at the first sign of threat they resort to the nuclear option.

Having said that, Lemmy specifically lacks tools on the user level, especially blocking instances. If a user doesn't want to associate at all that is understandable (privacy concerns, not wanting to interact with hate groups, etc) but right now they can only block communities and users individually, which would make it impossible to block meta.

Lastly, I feel there are avenues that haven't been properly explored, like forcing them to open source if they want to federate. (On the grounds of privacy concerns and security) In practice that would be the same as blocking them, but it would laid out a good foundation for new companies that want to enter the space without having to discriminate on a case by case basis.

Problem is that blocking is the nuclear option and everyone blovking before something comes out, which no one knows the danger yet like a hate speach platform would entail, goes against the spirit of the fediverse.

Rochko didn't sound that trigger-happy in his blog post from yesterday and he's (the Mastodon team) running some of the biggest instances. And so I think it's still an open question which instances would defederate and when. Maybe mastodon.social won't defederate ever. That'll cause a massive split.

Embrace, extend, extinguish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish

For an excellent writeup how Google used this to kill XMPP read this (and an explanation why this is a real concern for Mastadon/Fediverse):

https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html

Embrace-Extend-Extinguish

An example

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

It's the three steps process for killing an open source competitor. First you adopt it, start using it, then you improve on it, but keep these improvements to yourself, then you break compatibility.

You now have the bigger better version of the exact same thing, and no-one else gets a slice.

Endorse-Expand-Extingush or some variation. In essence you:

1. Adopt the technologies.
2. Expand within the community and inflate user interaction.
3. Cut off the free elements / monopolise the platform

You'll see loads of historic examples of this and various theories on how Meta intends to do it. Fascinating if not depressing reading.

Enroll, Engage and Enrage

EEE. Some useful context.

I don’t see this winning, but I do see SLAPP suits and harassment bring an issue for our administrators. You also have to consider LEO investigations and cybersecurity requirements. This is something folks need to understand and harden themselves for now, or get out of the game.