For the matter - the religious group in question (UOC) has not had any ties to Moscow for decades now, it is of the Moscow Patriarchate in the name only. Their "reasoning" comes down to "can't have anything similar to the Russians".
AFAIK they have been trying to undermine the aforementioned church for years, even now it's not really working - people aren't buying it, mostly.
Lol they're gonna get coupd themselves at this rate
Honestly I could see Ukronazi fight against the church being talked about as one of their biggest errors in the future (outside of relying on US for anything lol). Surely this is an unpopular move with vast swathes of Ukrainian population ? I know many of them take their Catholicism seriously, and its not like this church was some bastion of Soviet society, deeply reactionary institution already, just seems unnecessary to force this change
I had read libs mostly just getting in line with pavlov's dog reflex of supporting and excusing anything Ukraine did, so i meant this post as mostly yet another point out their hipocrisy because they constantly cry about so called religious persecution in China or USSR.
Surely this is an unpopular move with vast swathes of Ukrainian population ?
Definitely although hard to say how exactly because the ones openly belonging to the Moscow Patriarchate are being gradually deplatformed for years.
I know many of them take their Catholicism seriously
It's not catholicism, there are below 8% of catholics in Ukraine, it's state sponsored schism in the orthodox church, purely politically motivated and although the docrine remains the same the new de facto state religion supports the ukronazi actions very much and entire situation looks kinda like church support for ustase during ww2, though in this case the Kiev church is more of a puppet, after all, every sincgle church that didn't complied ended up shaken up by Kiev goons with confiscates and priest imprisonments.
Legality of the schism is also kinda dubious, because even if other patriarchates recognized it, Moscow didn't so it's outside meddling, something previously heavily criticized in orthodox church.
its not like this church was some bastion of Soviet society, deeply reactionary institution already
Eh i wish this opinion was more popular in leftist circles, but alas. Again, personally i wish unilimited schisms on all churches but i don't wish to see banderites also becoming ustase.
Definitely although hard to say how exactly because the ones openly belonging to the Moscow Patriarchate are being gradually deplatformed for years.
this is what I was getting at I think when I said it might be viewed as a crucial error, because that group that has been systematically deplatformed can't be tiny right ? and its one thing to mess with nationality and politics of these people but I feel like attacking the church is unnecessary step too far
It’s not catholicism, there are below 8% of catholics in Ukraine, it’s state sponsored schism in the orthodox church, purely politically motivated and although the docrine remains the same the new de facto state religion supports the ukronazi actions very much and entire situation looks kinda like church support for ustase during ww2, though in this case the Kiev church is more of a puppet, after all, every sincgle church that didn’t complied ended up shaken up by Kiev goons with confiscates and priest imprisonments. Legality of the schism is also kinda dubious, because even if other patriarchates recognized it, Moscow didn’t so it’s outside meddling, something previously heavily criticized in orthodox church.
When I said Catholicism I meant Orthodox I think sorry, I'm not as familiar as i should be with branches of Christianity. Totally agree with you that new doctrine is clearly aligned to push ukronazi agenda, I guess my question is just to what degree is there pushback against this in the Ukraine ? Perhaps its just my preconceived biases but id have thought that even among those in the Ukraine who were on board with russophobia, NATO war ect there must be many who find government attacks on the church unnecessary/unsavory, as it seems from what I gather that that previously existing ukrainian orthodox church was far removed from Russia already and really only took issue with theological type stuff related to the schism (though once again i am theologically illiterate so good chance i am misunderstanding)
I guess my question is just to what degree is there pushback against this in the Ukraine ?
No idea, there is no trustworthy info about it. Nothing major though, but i imagine country in which army is openly kidnapping and harassing people and where opposition is jailed or murdered by fascist mobs might have this supressed.
previously existing ukrainian orthodox church was far removed from Russia already
Doctrinally and thologically there is zero diferences, politically yes, although the schism was only in 2019, so you can see it's very recent development, i wouldn't be surprised to see US money in that, it wouldn't be even first time nor the 100th where orthodox church took US money for working against people.
Less outrage, more shades of Diem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem , who persecuted Buddhists.
Zelenskyy's approval rating, likewise, is starting to go down the tubes.
Eh, screw the church anyway
Sure, unlimited schisms on all religious organisations, but note all the libs suddenly forgot their freedom of religion talk they were full of at every mention of China or USSR.
Fair