1657
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by ickplant@lemmy.world to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

Why YSK: These email tips are helpful for people who struggle with boundaries and want to communicate more assertively.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] deweydecibel@lemmy.world 321 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Some of these are good, some are just needlessly assertive nonsense. Especially the two where it's actively refusing to acknowledge fault or apologize for it, which is standard PR crap. Refusing to apologize and instead saying "thanks for your patience" is what I expect to hear from my ISP when they miss their scheduled install, not from a coworker.

There's nothing wrong with being a normal human being that is capable of admitting their own shortcomings. If never saying sorry means "being a boss" then that explains why there's so many sociopaths as CEOs.

"Hope that make sense?" Vs "Let me know if you have any questions."

The latter is saying "here's the explanation, figure it out, bother me again if you can't". The fromer, while poorly worded, is being helpful, actively attempting to make sure the person understands before leaving them to it. It's both a kindness and doing your due diligence.

[-] Sanguine@lemmy.world 107 points 1 year ago

Seriously.. and oftentimes just combining both works better. "Hey sorry I'm late, I appreciate you all being patient" or "Hope that all makes sense, but please feel free to ask any questions if they come up"

[-] almar_quigley@lemmy.world 76 points 1 year ago

I’m so happy to see a sane comment at the top here. So many of these are just stupid and border on alpha male don’t take not shit or admit fault crap.

[-] mars@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 year ago

I think it goes the other way too. For people that tend to apologize too much, even when it’s not their fault, mixing in a “thanks for your patience” is a good way to balance it out a bit.

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 17 points 1 year ago

I'm torn. I feel like admitting guilt and owning up to your failures is a virtue, but I'm not sure the rest of the world agrees with me

Neurotypical enough to read body language, neurodivergent enough to never understand why

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Arotrios@kbin.social 95 points 1 year ago

My personal ones for corporate use:

  • Never use I when you can use we.

  • Even if you're the only one working on a project, never refer to it as yours. Always refer to it as ours.

  • Don't apologize, present solutions.

  • Don't say "read my fucking email again you goddamn illiterate moron", say "As previously noted in our communications...."

[-] ickplant@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

The last one is particularly important if you like to eat.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] books@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I will also attach old emails rather than repeat myself.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 77 points 1 year ago

To be honest, I find most of these passive aggressive and patronizing.

[-] Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago

I agree, but, you'd be surprised how many people find many of these seemingly innocuous distinctions offensive (if only a little bit). For example, I was once chided by HR for saying 'no problem' during a seemingly friendly discussion.

[-] xmax3@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

Seems like a toxic work environnement to get chided for so little..

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] RagingNerdoholic@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

If someone has a problem with "no problem," they have a problem.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Lysergid@lemmy.ml 72 points 1 year ago

Half of it is fragile CEO ego reply

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Onedestiny@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago

"When can I expect an update" makes you sound like a micro managing POS

[-] Pili@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 1 year ago

Yeah, there are some good ones and some terrible ones.

Also reading the whole thing, it makes it sound like you should never apologize. I see it becoming real toxic real quick.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] aloeha@lemmy.world 65 points 1 year ago

God I hate forced formality like this. This is the kind of shit Gen Z and millennials are rebelling against and I'm all for it. It is stupid for us to encourage people to be themselves and then to expect them to act like a completely different person at work, including the way they talk.

[-] ickplant@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago

You may see it as forced formality, but these tips were created by a person with ADHD to help others who struggle with setting boundaries, especially with time. The creator is a Millennial comic artist. It helps me be more myself when I respect my schedule and don't over-apologize, but I can understand that not everyone sees it the same way.

[-] aloeha@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

I think you can do all of the things you said without being overly formal about everything! For reference I have ADHD too. ☺️

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Tar_alcaran@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago

"It'd be easier to discuss in person" means "I don't want a record of this because it's either illegal or shows my incompetence".

Any meeting that they want to talk about in writing should ALWAYS be recorded.

[-] Steeve@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago

Also, carefully laying thoughts out in text for 40 minutes takes a lot less time than explaining it meaningfully to multiple people, probably more than once if it was important enough. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] Snapz@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago

YSK, the person that embraces all of these, as written, is RIGHTFULLY perceived as an assholes by their peers.

[-] SixTrickyBiscuits@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Some of them are great and can even make things less awkward for the other person. The "small error" one for example. The "I have an appointment" one is necessary when talking with higher ups in big companies who completely devalue your needs. But some are assholish, yeah.

[-] bwhough@kbin.social 52 points 1 year ago

I greatly prefer some of the "wrong" ones. Not everyone needs to talk like a corporate robot.

[-] ndr@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago

I think it definitely depends on your relationship with the recipient. While I do think most of those are better options, I wouldn’t say they’re necessarily what you should write.

[-] Stovetop@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed, it is not always prudent to be overly assertive.

For example, I may be working with someone else on a project that is not time sensitive, but for my own planning I like to stay up to date on progress. I absolutely would reach out to someone with a "Just checking in, how are things going with X" because, well, that's honestly all I'm doing. Checking in.

Meanwhile, saying "When can I expect an update?" is almost like saying "I don't think you're going fast enough and I'm getting impatient," which sends the wrong type of message, makes me seem like a hardass, and might impact the quality of work if the other person suddenly feels rushed.

[-] ubergeek77@lemmy.ubergeek77.chat 50 points 1 year ago

All of these are really good examples of writing a good email, except the bottom left one.

The "wrong" example is perfectly fine, and the "correct" example is pretty rude unless you're a project manager addressing your team. Even if you were a project manager, it's still pretty rude.

[-] Demoliscio@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

I totally agree, bottom left one screams of project manager that scheduled too much in your sprint and they're pressuring you to finish everything asap

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] crazyminner@sh.itjust.works 44 points 1 year ago

In a good workplace, none of these fucking matter...

load more comments (6 replies)
[-] lvxferre@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Take those tips with a grain of salt, as this sort of conventional politeness strategy is heavily dependent on culture, situation, and sometimes even individual*.

I predict that those tips would work poorly with people from cultures where negative politeness ("don't burden the others") is valued over positive politeness ("show appreciation towards the others"). This is fairly common in East Asia for example, but even here in Latin America I got a few people rolling their eyes at "biztalk" like "obrigado pela paciência" (thank you for the patience) over a simple apology.

In special, I can picture the centre advice rubbing a lot of people the wrong way, as it's basically the writer lifting a burden from one's own shoulders (struggling to word something) by creating a burden to the reader ("I expect you to be available offline for a meeting").

*if anyone wants to dig deeper into this subject, check Penelope Brown and Stephen Levinson's Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage. It's a bit of a technical read for Linguistics (more specifically Pragmatics), but I got plenty laymen who love the book.

[-] ickplant@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

This is a fantastic comment, thank you. I think it's fascinating that there is such a mixed reaction, and your explanation certainly helps me make sense of it.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] mavedustaine@lemm.ee 41 points 1 year ago

For me personally, receiving a ‘just wanted to check in’ feels less aggressive than ‘when can I expect an update’

Otherwise I agree with the rest

[-] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago

Agreed. The former sounds like "How's it coming?" and the latter sounds like "What's taking so long?"

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] UncommonBagOfLoot@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Some of those "wrong" ones would be fine for instant messages like Slack or Teams.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Squiglet@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Its not that simple. Its ok to apologize sometimes. But not so apologize every fucking time like I do for every minor slide. Also I can see the usefulness to just make the shot call instead of staying 1h writing that message/email. Others are ok too.

[-] ZoopZeZoop@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

I write emails for an hour sometimes. Some things you want to have in writing so you can point back to it later. I work in a government position and for a lot of the folks I deal with I need to be able to show I told them this on this date and the trail that goes along with it to be able to take action on what they did that they shouldn't have or didn't do that they should have. That hour on an email could prevent or shorten tons of meetings and headaches. Just depends on your job.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] EdanGrey@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 year ago

I'd never say 'always happy to help' because sometimes I'm actually not, particularly if a client is a pain and badgers me constantly. I don't want to invite more interruption

[-] Keeslinp@programming.dev 17 points 1 year ago

The thank you for your patience one has always rubbed me wrong. There's honor in apologizing in my opinion. I do like the making a mistake one though and I've tried to adopt that mentality when I'm working with QA on something I've merged. I want them to feel good about finding the mistakes and I want to avoid an adversarial relationship. I've learned that I get way better tickets from QA if they like how I treat them. Treat them like valuable experts and they'll act like valuable experts.

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] DebraBucket@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Some of these are great. “Could you do” takes the burden off the other person to propose something initially, and suggests respect for their time. “I will need to leave for” begs forgiveness rather than asks permissions, and since you are communicating it, it gives others the opportunity to correct your decision. These are examples of saving everyone time while still communicating them. Being too nice can be a time waste, like saying hello and then waiting for a response before asking your question.

Some of these take away the autonomy of the other person though, and that’s shitty. “When can I expect an update?” is one of those. It would be better to express this in terms of what you need and why, like “I am reporting to X person at noon tomorrow on this, could you give me an update before then?”

Of course, whether you say “just checking in” or “when can I expect…”, if you have no good reason (micromanaging is not a good reason) for checking in then you’re just being an asshole.

[-] Flareon@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Borgzilla@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Non-native speaker here. What are the disadvantages of being straightforward? In my native language, it is considered more efficient and polite to be to the point. I have worked with Americans in the past, and I have noticed that they are not straightforward.

[-] lumiloop@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Being straightforward is fine, but often times being straightforward comes with an air of superiority. It's fine in a boss setting, but you should be careful giving commands to people who don't answer to you as it shows a lack of respect. People just want to be treated nicely and feel like they have a choice.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] WhiteTiger@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Improving my work emails is 99% of what I use ChatGPT for.

[-] MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Nobody really wants to spend time reading long emails at work. Make it short, direct, and polite works best.

[-] theneverfox@pawb.social 14 points 1 year ago

I have very mixed feelings about this. I feel personally attacked, but also might reference this moving forward

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] Ryan213@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I never open email. Work is so much easier.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] thesanewriter@vlemmy.net 13 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I can tell why this is from adhddd.com, it's all about assertiveness. People with ADHD in general (including myself, to an extent) have trouble with being assertive, so most of the phrases in this chart try to change a meek or mild-mannered response to a more assertive one. I think part of the struggle of life is finding balance because while some of these are generally improvements, others are generally worse, and the difference will depend on the tone you're going for and the person that you're sending the email.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] return_null@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

As someone who frequently says "No problem" after someone thanks me for helping them, I'm now worried someone has taken that the wrong way.

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Some of these come across dickish

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
1657 points (90.6% liked)

You Should Know

33224 readers
4 users here now

YSK - for all the things that can make your life easier!

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must begin with YSK.

All posts must begin with YSK. If you're a Mastodon user, then include YSK after @youshouldknow. This is a community to share tips and tricks that will help you improve your life.



Rule 2- Your post body text must include the reason "Why" YSK:

**In your post's text body, you must include the reason "Why" YSK: It’s helpful for readability, and informs readers about the importance of the content. **



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding non-YSK posts.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-YSK posts using the [META] tag on your post title.



Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.

If you harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

If you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.

For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- The majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.

Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.



Partnered Communities:

You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.

Community Moderation

For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.

Credits

Our icon(masterpiece) was made by @clen15!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS