-14

Head of NATO says Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO expansionism (www.nato.int)

submitted 1 year ago by Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

171 comments fedilink hide all child comments

From the guy's own mouth.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 47 points 1 year ago

Whoa, Putin's propaganda goes all the way to the top!

/s because I just remembered where I am

[-] Syldon@feddit.uk 38 points 1 year ago

There is nothing in this that reflects the title. It's nothing more than passive propaganda. They are relying on people to just read the title and not open the link.

What is actually said is:

And let me just end by saying that this reflects the political reality that nations are sovereign. Nations decide themselves, and Ukraine has of course the right to decide its own path. And it's up to Ukraine and NATO Allies to decide when Ukraine becomes a member. Russia cannot veto membership for any sovereign independent state in Europe.

[-] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 50 points 1 year ago

And let me just end by saying that this reflects the political reality that nations are sovereign.

I mean that's just factually untrue. Every nations sovereignty is restricted by geopolitical realities. No nation can just do whatever they desire, including joining certain alliances. Mexico will not be joining BRICS for instance, because of the geopolitical situation. And that's not even a military alliance, which NATO is! Europeans are not special, they have to play by the same rules as everybody else. To claim otherwise is to ignore the reality on the ground right now, both in Ukraine and globally.

Also none of this factors in that joining NATO, by definition, involves giving up some part of your nations sovereignty. NATO in reality acts as an extended arm of the US military and it's industrial complex, and in joining, countries are subjected to this reality of Atlanticism.

load more comments (8 replies)

[-] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 49 points 1 year ago

The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

At least he had some good jokes to warm up the crowd!

I think I've told you before that I know it's hard to allocate money for defence, because most politicians want to spend money on health, on education, on infrastructure instead of defence.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] Hexadecimalkink@lemmy.ml 32 points 1 year ago

Actually he also said (in the link):

“The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.”

load more comments (81 replies)

[-] StalinForTime@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago

Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.

Learn to read.

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago

Head of NATO ruzzian shill confirmed

[-] zephyreks@hexbear.net 32 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.

At least quote the relevant section ffs

[-] AOCapitulator@hexbear.net 26 points 1 year ago

Why are they just admitting to it now? What changed?

[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The closest thing to the lie you wrote is the part where it says Putin demanded that NATO stop recognizing Ukraine as a sovereign country. So he's invading Ukraine because NATO didn't allow him to annex Ukraine Anschluss and annexation of Sudetenland style. And if you think that would help, remember that appeasing Putin over Georgia and, effectively, over Crimea and Donbass didn't do shit to stop his aggression.

Besides the document implies what was already obvious, which is that, before the war, Ukraine wasn't even going to be allowed into NATO any time soon, NATO countries just couldn't sign an agreement that would limit Ukraine's sovereignty.