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How come LED Light Bulbs only last for about 2-3 Years?

I've bought and replaced a lot of light bulbs, and I noticed that all of them said "up to 20,000 hours" which would be about 5 years given 12 hours of daily use (which we definitely don't).

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[-] FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 22 points 15 hours ago

Since people are just giving snarky douchebag replies, I'll actually attempt to answer the question since that's what this community is for?

The estimate given on the packages of these bulbs are absolute best case scenario, using an optimal temperature range and pattern of use that won't really match up with the average household because:

  1. You may go on vacation and let your house get cold or hot. This could affect the life of thr bulb

  2. The manufacturer is likely leaving the bulbs on 24/7 when measuring. Most people turn lights on and off multiple times throughout the day. This can decrease the life of thr bulb, just like with any other electronic device.

  3. Humidity in the house can change dramatically year round. Manufacturing tests probably keep a constant humidity level.

  4. If you're buying cheap random LED bulbs off Amazon from dogshit brands (i do thid too so not knocking you), the manufacturer estimates might just straight up be a lie.

I'm sure there are other reasons but that's a good start.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 8 points 14 hours ago

They never last that long, as they easily get away with it.

In one of the gulf states, though (Dubai?), they actually have only longer lasting LED lights for sale, as the minister responsible for regulation is something like an EE and forced the LED bulb providers to make a special version of those bulbs that basically last for ever. Those are only sold in that country, and hard to come by elsewhere.

[-] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago
[-] counselwolf@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

are there cool/non-warm colored filament led bulbs? My SO prefers the cool colored bulbs.

[-] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I’d be shocked if there aren’t.

[-] Kaliax@lemmy.world 6 points 15 hours ago

Planned obsolescence

[-] orcrist@lemm.ee 6 points 15 hours ago

Stop buying the cheap ones. :-)

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 14 points 20 hours ago

Maybe stop buying the seizure-brand ones from Amazon?

I think I've had to replace one bulb in my entire house in the last 6 years or so.

[-] hperrin@lemmy.world 19 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Smart bulbs like this:

Have PCBs with small LEDs surface mounted to them. This means that the on-off cycle of the bulb causes heat deformation cycles of the PCB. This stresses the foils in the PCB and can eventually cause them to lose connection. That’s one of the reasons why they’ll often start flickering or lose the ability to be cool white, warm white, or specific colors (the different kinds of LEDs in them).

But bulbs like this (often called smart edison bulbs):

Use longer/larger LEDs that aren’t mounted to the PCBs, and will probably last much longer. They are better at not overheating their own electronics.

If you want the first kind to last longer, don’t run them above ~60% brightness.

[-] englislanguage@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 11 hours ago

Are you sure? Doesn't the "smart edison bulb" design make it harder to dissipate heat to the casing, therefore making the LEDs get hotter compared to PCBs with LEDs surface mounted on them?

Anyway, if you want your ~~light bulbs~~any technology to last long, don't buy the "smart" variant. "Smart" usually means more components and/or more dependencies on interfaces, and more complexity, so a higher chance to fail.

[-] Raiderkev@lemmy.world 25 points 1 day ago

I replaced my mom's can lights with LEDs and I was an early adopter. I believe it was ~2012-15 ish. Not a single one has died. The only reason any of them fail now is poor quality and / or planned obsolescence. The tech itself is solid AF. I had some bulbs I got from IKEA for $1. Those have failed countless times.

[-] nimpnin@sopuli.xyz 14 points 1 day ago

They don’t? What are you talking about?

[-] k_rol@lemmy.ca 4 points 16 hours ago

Is Lemmy worse than Reddit to answer no stupid questions?

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[-] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 9 points 22 hours ago
[-] nimpnin@sopuli.xyz 3 points 21 hours ago

I have never had that happen and I buy my bulbs from the grocery store

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

I've had brand new ones that were duds before.

[-] nimpnin@sopuli.xyz 1 points 10 hours ago
[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

I have still to have a led light break. They just never do, I buy mine at aliexpress or IKEA or wherever.

[-] tfw_no_toiletpaper@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

Mine work for I think over 10 years now. Some of the actual LEDs inside died but you don't really notice 1-2 of 200 inside the bulb being dark.

[-] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 7 points 1 day ago

I have been dumpster-diving for LED bulbs for 5 years. None of them had 200 chips, they usually have about 5-30 packages with 1-6 diodes each for a total of around 30-60 so that they total some 90-180 V in series (I live in a 230V mains region, and the 330V rectified mains can be efficiently transformed to that voltage by an SMPS). Because they are in series, if one in the series chain fails open circuit (the most common way), the entire chain goes out. Yes, fixtures (not bulbs) with 100+ LED chips exist and if they are designed to operate at a low voltage with all chips in parallel, the failure of one will not affect the others.

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[-] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 113 points 1 day ago

I have a dozen that run 12+ hours a day. I've had 1 fail in 5 years.

Don't buy cheap LEDs, and don't put them in enclosures that trap heat.

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 42 points 1 day ago

Speaking from experience: LED drivers hate dirty power. If they burn out frequently, check the wiring for damage. I probably avoided a house fire.

[-] Albbi@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

Dirty power? Aww geez it's been a few years since I last washed and waxed my power lines. Guess I gotta open up the walls again.

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[-] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Only buy Philips (not the Hue stuff) or Osram

The rest are shite

[-] Fuzzy_Red_Panda@lemm.ee 6 points 16 hours ago

+1 for philips.

The problem is most of what the big box hardware stores in the US are selling are junk brands. And they won't even offer basics like a philips 75-watt-equivalent soft-white led in their stores.

The junk brand bulbs will fail in my kitchen light fixture after a year (they start flickering). The philips bulbs have never failed for me.

A properly designed and produced led bulb should last like 20 years.

[-] greyfox@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago

I've got several full color Hue bulbs that are the most used lights in my house. I haven't had a single failure in a decade.

I was more than a little annoyed when they decided to stop supporting my original controller for them though.

[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago

Osram literally means "I'll shit on it" in polish, they are the definition of a shit brand

[-] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 2 points 16 hours ago

Millions of electricians would disagree, but I can't speak for Polish sparkies

[-] Maalus@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

It's a joke in Poland - what shines and actively threatens you? A lightbulb made by Osram

[-] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 1 points 13 hours ago

Ha ha brilliant, I'll remember that one 😊

[-] piyuv@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

Ikea’s are nice too

[-] CmdrShepard@lemmy.one 70 points 1 day ago

Generally because you're buying cheaper ones that aren't built as well. Heat destroys LEDs and the cheap bulbs generally use fewer individual LEDs running at higher power to produce a given output in lumens. More expensive bulbs use more LEDs at lower power to achieve the same light output so that they're not constantly being overdriven and last much longer.

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[-] millifoo@lemmings.world 45 points 1 day ago

Heat.

While the actual LEDs (*) may be rated up to 20,000 hours+ in optimum circumstances, but the actual 3rd party bulb manufacturers, especially the cheapo brands, are building bulbs with poor heat dissipation designs and cheap and/or poorly designed circuits. Same goes for other parts they may use, such as the power supply. To reach 20,000+ hours, you need everything - not just the LED - to be working optimally together.

(*) the best LED makers out there right now, e.g. Nichia, Cree, Phillips - really do some amazing engineering.

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[-] plz1@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

I've had sets of LED under-cabinet lights powered on 24/7 for about 14 years. I think one bulb went bad, out of 12.

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The same reason that western countries refused to buy the extremely hard to break Superfest glasses manufactured in the GDR (East Germany) during the Cold War: planned obsolescence and consumable goods mentality in the interest of profit (they got a west German salesman to take the glasses to a trade show, and nobody gave a shit, because part of the industry’s profit model at the time was the sale of new glass due to breakage.

In point of fact: better, longer lasting LED bulbs DO exist, but they’re only sold in Dubai (due to the monarchy there basically decreeing that they wanted that to happen, so Phillips made them for them, but will NOT sell them outside of the country, because it would kill their sales elsewhere).

[-] Kerb@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 day ago

i have 7 bulbs since 2019
none of them failed so far.

all the lifespans i found ranged between 15.000 to 25.000 hours ( which btw was equated to 1.000 hours per year instead of 5.000 per year)

so this doesn't sound normal to me.

how manny(in use) bulbs do you have?
what brands do you use?

[-] kitnaht@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Get the ones with the strip LEDs that look like they're trying to emulate a glowing tungsten filament. I can't remember where I got the information; it was like the Technology Connections YouTube channel or something, but I remember them saying that since they put the LED lights in series on those bulbs, they have a much higher voltage requirement to drive them, and much less circuitry is needed. It's the circuitry that burns out, and many of these filament-style LED lights literally only have a resistor as their main component.

I've swapped to these kinds of LEDs like...5 years ago, and haven't had one burn out yet. Probably have like...15 of them across the entire house.

https://youtu.be/fsIFxyOLJXM?si=4wz0wa355Wd9gkUP&t=1389 -- YEP -- Found the advice. Starts at 23:09 BigCliveDotCom also says the same in his episode about Dubai Lamps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4

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[-] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 day ago

They've been sabotaged by design. LEDs should last 10+ years if built even half away reasonably, but unfortunately the manufacturers basically got together and agreed to build them in such a way they would fail. Same as regular light bulbs, they just have to work harder.

I still have some of the earliest modern LED bulbs on the market--old Philips ones, the AmbientLED (i think) with the yellow casing and large heat sinks. They've been running for like 15 years now and not a one of them has failed. I spent several hundred USD replacing all my bulbs with those back in the day and they've done me well.

Modern bulbs are trash by comparison. Not because the technology is limited in some way but because they refuse to make anything to that quality anymore.

We need an alternate solution to this planned obsolescence bullshit. Light bulbs hit 50k rated hours long ago and they were talking about making ones that went 100k+ but these days you can't find anything above 25k. And that's setting aside the fact that a lot of these rely on apps that could be dropped at a moment's notice.

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[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

My smart LED bulbs don't even say how long they last, but my experience with LEDs in general tells me they will last practically forever. Out of all the LED things I have, the only ones with any burnt out lights are a couple of cheap LED strips I have and I can't even be sure the ones that are dead weren't because of where I cut the strip. I've had those things for over 12 years now and they're in my PC which is always on.

Afaik, the biggest threat to killing the LED is heat, and some cheaper LED bulbs have really poor heat dissipation. Technology Connections has a video about them, which may be more informative.

[-] ShunkW@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

I have had the same light bulbs since 2012. One of them broke when I dropped it while moving. Otherwise, no issues at all. Philips brand that I bought a box of 12 of when I moved into an apartment that year. Maybe I'm just lucky, but still no issues.

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this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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