Soon a color revolution in Serbia and Hungary ? : worldnews

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 9 months ago

No way US pumps more money in Poland than Germany, unless this is counting all the expenses on their base in Poland as "direct investment"

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago

I don't know for the other years, and couldn't easily find data to conclude, but the article writes that :

Intel, a chipmaker, picked Poland for a $4.6bn plant

That'd be 4.6bn out of the ~$7bn on the graph

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Over 1/3rd of it was to be financed by Polish tax money and it was scrapped anyway.

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago

105 kurwa sasinów poszło się jebać XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 9 months ago

Well, not necessarily, it's only suspended not canceled :)

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Going by what happening with Intel right now, i stronly suspect it's only empty talk. Though knowing Polish government and its servilism towards America, i wouldn't be even very surprised if Poland funded 100% of that factory, after all it's exactly what they were doing in 90's

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I've quickly documented myself on the "polish economic miracle" a few years ago, but only remember that it was linked with millions of polish working in other european countries, as well as important foreign direct investments, you seem knowledgeable so perhaps could you redirect me towards some explanations for this, or take a bit of your time to explain it to me yourself ? I've also postponed the understanding for China's success, this topic of "Why do some countries become wealthy and not others" is among the most interesting possible.
Also, having never heard of Poland(, or any country for that matter,) funding 100% of a company while leaving the dividends to foreign hands, i'd like to know more about that as well if you have the time and/or a link.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Polish "economic miracle" could means several things, we have one constantly reinvented by state propaganda to shut our faces and i lost count long ago what they mean currently. Generally over the last two decades i would say it's blanket term for sucking up the cash from EU (Poland was and still is all the time most subsidized country) while not entirely integrating into EU financial structures to not be hit as hard by the crisises like in 2008 (fun fact: even the fucker balcerowicz knows euro is not good and lobbying hard for keeping currency was probably the only good thing he ever did) and actually quite skillful engineereing of social dumping both from and to Poland.

Before that it was standard for postsocialist country "let's lose 30 years of development, become colonised, and call that economical miracle"

never heard of Poland(, or any country for that matter,) funding 100% of a company while leaving the dividends to foreign hands

Huh? That's happening all the time, it's called "privatisation". In Poland (and i suspect in every postsocialist country) there was especially scummy way to do it in first 3 years of transformation: industry was bought by random people substituted by foreign business, for peanuts, and those peanuts were provided by the company being bought as lease, so effectively it was state just giving up the industry for free, nearly always into foreign hands.

It also did happened later like the case of modern steel mill being build, immediately sold for nearly nothing and of course liquidated as competition (in Silesia around 2005 iirc).

There was also even more blatant case i do known, though it probably also happened way more elswhere and wasn't into foreign hands specifically: Meiji Japan build state industry and then to purposefully kickstart not even capitalism but immediately imperialism, they just given it up to zaibatsus, creating the industrial molochs that would lead Japan straight into fascism. And considering the still-mostly medieval development level of most of coutry it could be said that they literally pushed the imperialism button.

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Thank you very much, i forgot about privatizations, and initially thought you were talking about brand new industries 100% paid by the state immediately given to foreign hands(, the steel mill factory in Silesia being built in the 70s).
But yeah, it could have brought a lot of money to the state coffers instead of the same foreign capitalist hands. Our public workers have(had) better salaries and working conditions than private ones in France, and it's strangely used as an argument against public enterprises rather than against private enterprises. We're quick to say that these better conditions means higher prices(, but higher salaries means being able to buy at higher prices anyway), yet we'll ignore that higher dividends also mean higher prices, and public enterprises usually have zero dividends as well as fewer salary gaps.

Well, in any case, that was informative, and i didn't know about the gift of japanese state-owned enterprises to the zaibatsus, thanks !

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I.d.k., but even if it was scrapped it's probably counted in.

I've found this graph here :

This table here may be a good enough answer ?

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 9 months ago

This graph is not related at all, it's from 2021 and it's global investments, look at the y axis. Poland would barely be shown there as pixel. And in the other graphs in your link you can see that US investments in Poland were less than Belgian or Swiss or Swedish, and even by the ultimate flow of capital still half of German ones and less than Netherlands.

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

This graph is not related at all, it's from 2021 and it's global investments, look at the y axis. Poland would barely be shown there as pixel.
And in the other graphs in your link you can see that US investments in Poland were less than Belgian or Swiss or Swedish

Yep, you're right about the y-axis, i've read that too quickly.
And the other graphs in the pdf seem indeed to confirm that 2023 was an exception :

I should probably research it a bit more to have a more precise point of view.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 9 months ago

that 2023 was an exception

I wonder if this really were all military expenses.

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 9 months ago

Buvic is definitely a target for being insufferable bothsidesy.

[-] commiewolf@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 9 months ago

"Top Three countries"

What? There are 4 bars? and 6 colors?

What am I looking at?

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago

no clue 🤷, perhaps a mistake ?
The article isn't more informative about this "top three countries"(, and announces a european ban on chinese electric vehicles) : https://archive.ph/69zPS, with the usual race to the bottom :

Rich countries may offer more subsidies, but CEE countries have cheaper land and labour, looser regulations and lower taxes.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

IMO it can always get worse. You can look to Ukraine and the Philippines as examples of just how bad it can get; at least for now they (Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia, Moldova, Georgia, etc) are ostensibly independent countries with some sort of self-interest and self-preservation.

It's one thing to have a Franco or Salazar in power, and another to have a Horthy or Quisling. And there are all sorts of creative things the west can use a fully compromised Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia, etc. for (alongside the fact it would strengthen the western unified fascist front in the likely upcoming WW3), as can be seen with the Kenyan military police in Haiti, or the US'/western EU's attempts to expand NATO activities to the entire globe (in Asia and west Africa in particular).

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I should probably stop having clashes online, but i've nothing else to do currently.

I'd say : isolate yourself then.
On my part, i'll believe we need allies and not "left purity", let's survive first.
Also, feel free to disagree but even after ensuring the survival of the communist ideals i want a multipolar/multinodal world, i don't want a uniform communist world-state but communists, theocrats, monarchists, real/direct democrats, "anarcho"-capitalists, extreme ecologists, and many more. I.d.c. about world domination, it's not desirable, feel free to dislike these countries but i won't.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 9 months ago

Then please send them, i assumed that you were only talking about l.g.b.t. laws.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Wow, that was very informative on more than one level, i wrote answers to more than a dozen comments these past days and yours is probably my favorite, thanks !

The situation you described initially reminded me of accounts i've read from eastern europe, but then progressively i've realized that it's probably the same in other countries with the rise of the far-right everywhere and the displacement of the Overton window. In France we've pretty much sold every single public company, and Serbia is incredibly much more socialist than i first thought, you almost don't have any communists in France, our far-far-left political parties are trostkyists that are anti-Russia(, i'll still vote for them obviously, our medias wouldn't leave them alone if they supported Venezuela, Russia, etc., and don't even begin with North Korea,) and probably consider China a dictatorship, while our "socialist party" has been capitalist for decades, etc. Serbia in comparison doesn't seem worse, i've lived all my life without knowing what socialism means, you still have remnants.
Once capitalists are in power, it's not surprising for anti-communism to be on the rise, please don't blame the population too much for not taking weapons, we'll have to do counter-propaganda ideally but our funds are more meager and i could understand if it seems like a lost cause. For that matter, i don't think that a communist revolution is likely to happen in France(, where i'm from,) either, nor in the u.s.a.
I misunderstood what you meant by "there is no saving" before, i thought that you were, e.g., french or american, and deemed these countries much worse than your own, when you're in fact comparing it the inspiring Yugoslavia of Tito(, believe it or not, despite its closeness, most french people don't know him and forgot about Yugoslavia, and he would obviously be classified as a dictator for not having bourgeois democracy). I didn't realize that your criticism came from the inside, but please do not despair ! Things change, and indeed these graphs show that Serbia isn't as anti-China as you thought(, the same goes for Hungary), it's at least one reason to rejoice.

Ah, and pardon me, but your grandmother seems awesome(, do you have any idea what my family members believes in(, i'm honestly not complaining) ? Having a grandmother that likes Lenin&Stalin and even believes that V.Putin is a crypto-socialist seems awesome/unbelievable, congratulations, she's even surfing the web, and she stops when he's talking about the replacement theory ? Man, we also have whole channels and political parties that talk about this all day, my grandmother has already integrated this as a fact many years ago and believes that immigrants are the cause of crimes, not poverty(, and is also certain that crimes are on the rise, like a lot of people, even if surveys show the contrary, we're beyond being anti-communist by forgetting about it)).
(For the record, i'm not saying that being against economic immigration is immoral, but not treating the unfair causes is, because i'm picturing an hopefully false future in which we'll live centuries among richs behind our walls, while the rest of our human family lives 'exploited by'&'poorer than' us with, e.g., an inferior salary, if i'm wrong and international inequalities aren't a moral problem, or will soon disappear, then let's "save our culture from destruction" by closing our borders to these poorer/exploited guys, otherwise let's focus instead on treating the causes(, while making sure it won't bite us afterwards,) because i certainly don't want such selfish future)

B.t.w., are you financially independent with your own place ? If not, it'll get better at this moment according to my experience, some people are annoying(, but, i mean, your aunt still claim to be socialist, my family members don't even want to debate so i'm explicitly told to shut up each time(, we'll still love each other though, just that no politics or any other debate is allowed, you can imagine how watching the news while eating quickly gets challenging :))), but even if they're annoying you'll have to challenge yourself as this is the occasion to bring the best of yourself, to try small pertinent comments in a loving voice if you manage to, and take time to let them explain their worldview to you even if you already know it(, sometimes ending their sentences if it gets too long).
That's just my personal opinion, we're here to make this world a better place aren't we ? Nobody's perfect(, very clearly myself first).

I've got time, so we could be (learning from each other by) having a debate on religion and/or conspirationnism if you're in a mood for that(, debating is fun and instructive ?). But i'll totally understand if you lack the time and/or will to continue this discussion for too long.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] RomCom1989@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 9 months ago

Over the Danube it's less bad somewhat,but the cost of that is heavy Euro-Atlanticist meddling

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

of course it's better than France since France is still colonial imperialist power and this hellhole was once SFRY

(don't know why i chuckled at your "of course", i've only spent a few days on lemmy.world and already forgot what Lemmygrad was like, quite apart from the rest of the Internet :))

I still don't entirely agree with the term fascism, even if i could see how the rhetoric about muslims in France is close to the rhetoric about jews in the past, e.g., they're destroying the fabric of society by not being french enough, and are a threat solely by their identity, an annoyance to get rid of, even an attack.
But their militarism isn't as exacerbated(, which could be explained solely by the context), the same goes for their nationalism as well(, even if they're not internationalist, and if hearing America first or France first, even at the expense of other countries, isn't uncommon), and it's always a bit worrying to hear them praise order and the restoration of authority.
They're still in favor of bourgeois democracy though, without public plans for a stronger leadership, don't openly support censorship, or express themselves as being a third way against liberalism.
They don't talk about the "french race" as inherently superior to the others with a classification of the different races in a biological way, nor put forward the virile/military strength of the male in order to save the nation.
When they talk about our past you can feel that monarchism isn't entirely dead in the heart of some of them, but damn, you can also almost even hear them talk of direct democracy sometimes(, although it may be a french exception).
But even if i personally consider the qualification fascism as an exaggeration since it can always be worse, i can see how it's similar, it's perhaps indeed more a question of quantity/intensity than quality/nature.
It's just that being pro-capitalist seems enough of a slur for me 🤷, it means legalizing theft and heading back to a feodal society(, even if technological progress may change this course towards more inequalities).

some people love China and view it in positive light

Yeah, we don't have that here, they're a dictatorship that persecute its opposition and if it falls we'll applaud this liberation. No need to explain to you why that's bullshit and revolting.

extreme racism against Roma

That's everywhere indeed, they're seen as criminals/thieves who don't want to work(, how could they without papers ?), people seeing their encampments sometimes think that it's disgusting and should go away, even if they're still allowed to stay quite a few years in the end, and it's not to the point of Ukraine for whom i've seen videos of pogroms against the Romani people(, i remember a video where they were chased in the woods), this could happen if our economic situation deteriorates.
I don't believe in national essentialism, or thinking that the poors deserve their fate(, since they don't have the same 'birth privileges'/'starting advantages',) instead of being born at the wrong place/time and just needing help as we all do... I don't know if you have this expression in Serbia to criticize the actions of our government "strong with the weak, and weak with the strong". Well, everything can always be worse, at least we've avoided the horrors of war...

Here's something i've just seen that may be indicative(, or be a wrong example i.d.k.), if you translate these comments then you'll see that most people are supporting the condemnation of two protestors that will live two whole years in a jail cell for dirtying a glass protection, absolutely zero damage was caused(, i don't know how they attained the number of 10.000£), we're not allowed to do violent protests and that's the most nonviolent i could think of, it even made a bit of publicity for this art piece. I can't understand the state but even worse it's all of these comments that i cannot understand, they're either against ecology(, why ?), or mistakenly believed that this art piece was ruined(, i doubt it), i don't know, that's the "strong against the weak" part, as for the "weak against the strong" there's private-public partnerships(, e.g., highway tolls), or the tax evasion&avoidance, etc., you're not going to hit the friends that helped you after all 🤷
It was retweeted by someone, Guillaume Meurice, who worked in one of the last public medias that we still have for more than a decade, and was fired, unbelievably, because of a segment in which he jokingly said while laughing that « In fact, Netanyahu is like Hitler, but without a foreskin », i shit you not it's for that sole reason officially and nothing else, i can't understand why a lot of people agreed that he went too far and had to be fired, in my eyes i'm convinced that he was fired for being probably (one of )the last "leftist" in our medias(, clearly not a communist propagandist/theorician mind you, we don't have that in France except on the Internet, but he's not against the idea of communism, he's for a more humane capitalism, and criticize our excesses).
Here's another example seen today, even if examples aren't as solid/serious as mentioning statistics and laws.

Well, i'll not make my review of the whole state of France(, not sure i'd be able to anyway), but here's some anecdotes as well, could be worse, could be better.

I consider myself to be much more of a theocrat than a communist, i see the latter as a consequence of the former, and if i had to choose between God and anything else then the choice is immediately done(, the most extreme would be to ask me to choose between God and what i consider to be virtuous, even if i can't imagine such situation).
I'm probably one of the only theocrat on Lemmygrad, but i don't think it's against the rules as long as i'm still communist, if you ever want to convince me that religions should disappear, i'm interested in such debate(, otherwise feel free to ignore this paragraph :)), the only thing i'm missing from reddit are those subreddits dedicated to debates(, even if it takes time).

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 9 months ago

You do realize that “foreign investment” also includes investments from Russia, correct?

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I don't understand your point and i don't see a mention of russian foreign investments in the infographic(, probably in the category "Others" ?)

(It's not related to your comment but this post also made me think of investments in Ukraine's economy to incentivize its political alignement change, closer with its past values and those of its south(, if it doesn't end up absorbed in a tri-alliance with Belarus or something else keeping the n.a.t.o. out, who knows), as well as the topic of spheres of influence)

[-] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 9 months ago

Because your post implies that a rise in foreign investment is a precursor to regime change and coup attempts. In my original comment I’m telling you that Russia is also counted in the foreign investment number so colour revolution based only off of this data is unlikely.

[-] soumerd_retardataire@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Ah, i'm sorry but i can't wrap my head around why counting(, or not,) Russia in the foreign investments number would change something about this likelihood : if it is absent then China is still enough(, and if it is present then this likelihood would increase). Sorry for my lack of comprehension and feel free not to explain yourself further on this detail if you don't consider it important.

colour revolution based only off of this data is unlikely

While i don't see the link with Russia(, since the p.r.c. is enough in itself), i entirely agree with this quote, it can just be considered as one of the indicators of geopolitical alignment, and i felt interesting to share this ~discovery with Lemmygrad.

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