Insists on KBM
A man of culture.
There used to be stories (not sure how many were true) of him going to events like E3, Tokyo Game Show, Gamescom, and other developer-centric game conventions.
He also was a key figure / contributor in some old school PC adventure games like Indiana Jones from waaaaay back in the day.
Can we all please admit that we merely tolerate keyboard as a gaming input device because of the precision that mouse provides? (Except maybe some special cases, like RTS) It's a glorified typewriter, and we (PC gamers) use it only because at some point, it was all that we had and we just got used to it. There must be something better than a panel of buttons.
Huh? On non-gamepad games (i.e. Dark Souls is an example of a gamepad game) Keyboard is completely fine. I wouldn't have it any other way.
This is the first time in my life I've ever heard this opinion lol.
Notice, that I didn't say it's impossible to use KB for gaming, I just said (or implied) that it's not optimal. It's not good, it's just what we have and what we are used to, and there's a lot of room for improvement. And I say this as a PC gamer of 30+ years. So much so that when I lay my hand on a keyboard it automatically assumes the WASD position, even if I intend to type.
And I'm glad that I brought this perspective to your attention, because we often don't question what we are used to since childhood. Hopefully, these discussions will eventually bring us something better, that we have not yet thought of.
no-gamepad games
i.e. dark souls
Who in their right mind plays souls games or any action RPG with mouse / keyboard?? You cannot even play demon souls with a mouse. A mouse is for aiming in shooters and the like.
You misread my comment. I'm saying Dark Souls is an example of a gamepad game. I updated the comment for clarity. I see how it wasn't clear, my bad.
Nah, mouse and keyboard is great for a lot of things. Strategy games, most MMORPGs. Heck even fighting games are actually really nice on a keyboard if you can get used to it, you can do very complicated movements by just pressing a few buttons, the actual analog input is actually completely unutilized in most fighting games anyway.
Having such a precise control over the buttons you press as well as having such a large amount of them is really important to a lot of games. And honestly even if we made a unique controller to replicate this precise input, we would still end up using a keyboard anyway because you can actually type messages on it, too.
I specifically mentioned those special cases. It's obviously nearly impossible to play RTS and MMORPGs with a controller effectively. And of course another reason we use keyboards is that some games are just text input/typing-heavy, it would be mighty inconvenient switching to and from another input method very often.
But I also think that it's easy to argue the point that the device designed with the sole purpose of entering text is not optimal for navigating characters in 2D/3D space. Something better just hasn't come along yet or it hasn't been popularized enough. An improved mouse design could also offload a lot of inputs from the kb hand, like those MMORPG mice with macro buttons. There's definitely room for improvement.
Idk, anything that does what a keyboard does for gaming will basically just end up being a keyboard honestly. If you want a set of easily accessible, customizable buttons for a videogame, what better than just a whole board filled with them really. I think that KBM has stuck around so long is that it is just a great way to play a lot of games.
My main point is just that I don't think a lot of people are "tolerating" keyboard controls like you initially said.
speak for yourself. my Keyboard(s) tolerated me when i got hyperfocused during a gaming session not the other way around.
Gaming sticks (and weird ass abominations like trackball mice) were quite popular for some time during late 90s and early 00s, but now they're mostly limited to certain games like flight/space games and usually part of a HOTAS setup.
What I miss on keyboard & mouse setups is any form of analogue input, usually best for driving in games and walking faster/slower etc. But nothing is stopping me from just plugging in any controller and it'll usually work on PC just fine.
For everything else I simply prefer keyboard anyway, many more buttons and combinations that controllers often lack. Lots of controller supported games these days need ways around having too many buttons by adding modifiers or having to use select-wheels and what not.
Hell I'd even go as far as adding a Stream Deck to my setup (I don't even stream), just to have another panel of (configurable) buttons to use for various games and stuff.
Yup I'm with you here. I love KBM and it's my preferred way to play for most games, but when it comes to driving I'd much prefer a controller with analogue triggers and a stick (unless it's a sim racer, in which case a wheel of course) for that extra precision.
Unfortunately I can't think of a good design to give that level of control to just one hand. Analogue keys are a thing but they sound awful, nowhere near enough precision due to the short travel of them.
You can technically get analog keyboard switches for your WASD movement and such, but afaik it'd be quite expensive and require a fairly customized keyboard to pull off. But it can be done!
Also I love having extra mouse buttons for all my modifiers. I use mine in WoW to access all my hotbars without moving my hand to press any modifier keys on the keyboard, really nice setup.
Yeah I thought about trying an analogue keyboard but I don't think I'll enjoy how those keys would work, just doesn't feel natural on a keyboard.
I also recently got a mouse with 12 buttons, specifically for WoW at the time lol. I have whole grid set up for just using those buttons. So many more (easy) keybinds opened up because of that.
On PC, I game exclusively with trackballs and have since the nineties. I've never not been given the side eye when someone found out that's how I play.
When was this magical time during which they were popular?
As I get older I've grown to just appreciate comfort over precision. I don't play competitive multiplayer, in fact the only multiplayer I play is COD zombies with some buddies once a week. And we all suck anyways so we're just having a laugh. I'd much rather just lean back in my chair with a controller.
I'm not sure I agree with "tolerating" keyboard. I quite like it over a joystick! The benefit in complex games (like RTS, as you mention) is obvious, but even in most 3D games I prefer the instant reaction and definite axis of WASD over the 360° analog inputs of a joystick. There are not many times I would rather move at 2° forwards-right at a ramping X% speed instead of simply moving forwards at 100% instantly. As for racing or other games that require precise analog inputs, I would generally prefer something that is bigger than my thumb i.e a racing wheel.
That isn't to say I completely disagree, though! The ergonomics are a clear disadvantage. Most keyboards are not ergonomic for typing, let alone gaming. It would be fantastic to see more gaming-specialised keypad devices other than that one Razor one and whatever Chinese Amazon specials are kicking around. But the keypad format is not something I would want to forego as any FPS I play for more than 20 hours I usually have the entire left half of the keyboard bound to something for quick access.
I upvoted you because this is a great discussion point. :)
Yeah, I'm not strictly comparing KBM vs. gamepad. As you mentioned, keyboards are just not ergonomic, and that's what I was basically saying. So you understood my point precisely, I, too, want to see more options.
Skill issue
I aspire to git gud one day.
Azeron cyborg is really nice but takes a bit to setup you keybinds for each game since even between fps games they can't decide what key opens a door.
On the azeron your thumb has a joystick which is w a s d then that leaves all your other fingers with multiple keys each so you don't really have to move your hand around that much. Still need a keyboard around for typing though in chat or a game where you name stuff
Yes! That's the kind of stuff I hope goes mainstream and supported more. Something purpose-built not for typing, but for gaming.
And I'm sure it would be quite comfortable to have a TKL (or some other compact KB) between that and a mouse and switch between inputs when necessary.
There are some exceptions but I generally agree. The keyboard isn't anywhere as precise as an analogue stick. Ideally I would use something like HOTAS for movement and mouse for aiming.
I used to play with a guy who was awesome with a mouse in his right hand and a controller in his left. Pretty cool setup. I tried it out and it wasn't for me
So true. I distinctly remember instances while playing GTAV with controller in the left hand and mouse in the right. lol
Would love to find a dedicated peripheral that i liked to be used similarly.
I used to be kbm exclusive but there have been some pretty good controller improvements made over the years, things like hotkey layers in Skyrim UI mods or the final fantasy MMO giving dozens of unique hotkeys on a controller, and new hardware with back buttons and shoulder buttons that keep both thumbs on the thumbsticks. Can't beat mouse for precision, but there are tradeoffs for that.
Yeah my steam input configs are crazy
I have a whole system for desktop navigation which I've grown to really like
I've recently taken to using touchpad touch as a button chord modifier and it is soo nice.
I like playing shooter's with m&k, str games too. I know for example in Apex, lot's of pro players une a controller.
But 3rd person games feel somehow much better with a controller. I'm not sure how uncharted, or HZD would play on Mouse and Keyboard.
How come Steven Spielberg hasn't done a video game movie? I envision a heartwarming tale of a young boy befriending a Strogg from Quake by giving it Reece's Pieces.
is this sarcasm? lol he did Ready Player One. the ultimate video game movie!
I mean... It's about video games, kinda. But I wouldn't call it a video game movie considering it's based on a book not a video game lol
I mean like why hasn't he done something like Borderlands? Surely he would have done a better job than Eli Roth even with a bad script.
It was a terrible movie, and the book wasn't much better.
Unpopular opinion, this is the only work of Spielberg's that I like. I can't stand his movies.
I find it very difficult to believe that you don't like a single Spielberg movie, just on a quantity level. He's made so many at this point, at least one must tickle your fancy.
Jurassic park? Lame.
Jaws? Unmoving.
Saving Private Ryan? Save me from this bore.
Schindler's List? Yak yak yak about the Holocaust.
But I will not take slander from the epic masterpiece that is the Animaniacs.
I retract my previous opinion. I forgot about the animaniacs. And freakazoid. But his movies? No thank you.
A man of culture.
Steven Spielberg being based as fuck, as per usual
It's a good input system even better if your mouse has side buttons, the problem is lazy, often japanese devs, ports, I remember Nioh 1.0 having no mouse support at all, you had to use keyboard buttons to rotate the camera, it arrived later with a few updates.
I had bought Dark Souls 3 on PS4 but I suck at controllers and couldn't play it. So I rebought it on PC, I was just the same but worse on a keyboard.
Steven Spielberg was the producer on Boom Blox for the Wii.
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