Poland revokes right of asylum because migration is Putin's plot to destabilize the EU : worldnews

[-] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 1 month ago

I think Russia has a chance with this to actually turn the tables on the west. The thing with migrations is while yes it can be tough to figure out how to handle all these people coming in all at once if you can get the infrastucture in place and get the economy growing fast enough so they all have jobs and just let them all come jt can be a MASSIVE boon to a region long term. Its part of why America grew so fast following colonization. If America hadnt had so many immigrants coming in they wouldnt have been able to have the economy they do today. These days America has shifted to an anti immigrant policy and i think its a huge mistake.

Russia has a lot of land. If they get Chinas help to pump out infrastucture and they start welcoming immigrants with open arms in 50-100 years Russia could be an economic powerhouse. And europe with its anti immigrant policies will be waning.

Its pretty simple. Workers create value. Immigrants coming means more workers which means more value. Let them come, create jobs for them to do, and you will prosper.

[-] plinky@hexbear.net 17 points 1 month ago

Unfortunately, they racist sadness-abysmal would be pog if they weren’t tho

[-] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 1 month ago

So is America. That didnt stop them. They hated all the immigrants they were bringing in but they still did it.

[-] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 month ago

These days America has shifted to an anti immigrant policy and i think its a huge mistake.

So aggressive and efficient at pulling up the ladder, there was nobody left in the US to stop the ruling ghouls from pulling it up on each other.

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

Agreed, Russia has its golden opportunity to revive and recover at least in part from shock therapy. Now if only they'd take it...

[-] sinovictorchan@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 month ago

The immigrants of non European origin could also help sustain the culture of mismanagement, laziness, and parasitism of the European immigrants after they deleted their Indigenous child slaves in fake schools that secretly continued after 1997 and the inheritance thief of abducted Indigenous children in the fake cultural assimilation projects. The twisted bizarre logic from the Indian Residential fake school death camps system and human child smuggling in the fake assimilation policy also imply that European immigrants will consider other ethnic groups to be European immigrants as well when the other races rob everything that European immigrants worked for...

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago

Reading this is such a rollercoaster.

The immigrants of non European origin could also help sustain the culture of mismanagement, laziness, and parasitism

What a horribly fashy thing to say!

Indigenous child slaves in fake schools that secretly continued after 1997 and the inheritance thief of abducted Indigenous children in the fake cultural assimilation projects.

Oh I guess I misunderstood the first part, you go comrade!

European immigrants will consider other ethnic groups to be European immigrants as well when the other races rob everything that European immigrants worked for...

Wait what the fuck?

[+] Sinister@hexbear.net -8 points 1 month ago

Russia already does welcome immigrants. Besides immigration isnt an inherently good thing. Its only valuable for free market capitalists.

[-] Xiisadaddy@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 1 month ago

What are you talking about? Only valuable for capitalists? If anything its MORE valuable for socialists. Immigration is a net positive unless your a xenophobe. It brings in new people many of whom are already educated so you get all the benefits without having to pay to educate them, and even the ones who arent as educated still are really hard working people who contribute a lot to society. People who arent go getters dont travel thousands of miles for a better life. The only real challenges presented by a lot of immigration are logistical in nature and socialist economies are better equiped to meet those challenges than capitalist ones. Plus even outside the economic benefits they bring with them diverse cultures and foods which make life more interesting and fun for the people already living there. One of my favorite things about America is all the different cultures and foods you can find there. Immigration only becomes a problem when you treat it like one and start treating the hard working people looking for a better life like criminals and then force them to turn to criminal acts to make ends meet. If you welcome people with open arms and provide them with opportunity then its only ever going to be beneficial to everyone involved.

[-] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's true that immigration can have downsides for workers if a) you are in a neoliberal capitalist shithole, and b) if you have zero solidarity between native and immigrant workers such that immigrants are allowed to be abused and super-exploited as a consequence of their more vulnerable status.

The way to fight things like downwards wage pressure resulting from immigration is through worker solidarity, unionization and other forms of collective action and organization. And yes this is possible to do with people of immigrant background too; after all, in today's day and age, with the technology available, language should be no barrier to organizing together. The only real barrier is racism.

Standing up for the rights of migrants and fighting for the rights of native workers, these are deeply interlinked struggles and the success of one will always positively affect the other. Throwing migrants under the bus in hopes of bettering native labor's position on the other hand is always going to end up having the opposite effect: it empowers capital while it atomizes and fragments the working class.

That's not to say that massive migration is necessarily a good thing. While migration can have very beneficial effects on the receiver country it is often detrimental to the countries of origin which experience brain drain and loss of the most highly trained labor. We also cannot forget that highly unbalanced migration is always caused by something being very wrong and pushing people to feel forced to leave their native lands, something which most people would not freely choose to do under normal circumstances.

Whether it's war, economic deprivation or ecological disasters that are causing this migration, those causes (most of which were brought about by the same neoliberal imperialist global system that also seeks to profit from turning native and migrant labor against each other in order to better exploit both) are what we should be looking at and helping those countries to tackle. We should not merely be shutting people out because that does not fix the problem, it only causes more suffering.

We are Marxists, we have to take a holistic view on these issues and not deal with them in the simplistic, un-dialectical way that a liberal or a fascist would.

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It is inherently good for the receiving country actually, more people = more labour power. It is bad for the country losing these people.

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago

Honestly IMO I think Russia and the BRICS nations could be a step towards the direction where these immigrant populations are more of a boon to their original countries than not. Russia and China in particular are two countries that could be and are doing a hell of a lot to not only export their economic/industrial model (and also collaborate academically, etc) abroad, but also bring people from around the world to see it in action, to see the culture, etc, and develop ties with them firsthand.

People are not just "lost" once they leave, and that this has often been the case is absolutely intentional by the west (destabilization, imperial plunder, etc) making the migrants' home countries destitute and dangerous in comparison, etc. And the knowledge of development and connections between people can absolutely be exercised for good and the benefit of both nations involved, particularly when they can return to their home countries with the assistance and support in recreating or building upon what they saw abroad (something the west has always interfered in on their part).

Both countries are working extensively with the global south, China with its countless BRI/etc projects and Russia as well in its Soviet history as well as presently with security assistance, debt relief/etc, and even helping build a nuclear power plant in Burkina Faso as one highlight that comes to mind (I'm sure there are others, just haven't looked into it). There's no reason that all this training/experience/etc could not be increased with talent coming to these countries to study, or with large student/worker exchanges to really develop a culture of solidarity and multipolarity. And if people wind up staying- particularly those from much less developed or unstable countries- there's still no reason they cannot be to the benefit of both countries in facilitating increased trade and cooperation, or even returning with Russian/Chinese/BRICS/etc support in due time to further develop their home countries in the end.

IMO while you're not entirely incorrect, you're thinking of things n the zero-sum model the west has imposed upon the world- there are other opportunities available, and the Soviet Union's history of doing similar, or China's presently (both without the mass immigration bits, though some immigration did and does occur) are examples of it. It's a more complex and in the short-to-medium-term, more expensive process than the western way of doing things, but I think the end result will be far better for everyone involved.

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

One more fucking time, will some boomer ass drobnomieszczanka tell me that the "bad times are over" because PiS is out of power. Every fucking time with these idiots, just like in the US we also have Blue Maga™ here.

Also, when asked about the border every person I've met so far was hitlerian. It sucks so fucking bad to live here mates. And I can see why, as inside the article we have this banger:

“I don’t think we would have won if we hadn’t outflanked the then ruling party on the right on migration, if we hadn’t convinced the electorate that we will be as tough on physically protecting the Polish border as the previous government was, so we neutralised this issue,” Mr Sikorski told an audience at the John Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies in Washington in September.

KURWAAAAA JEBAĆ TUSKA :agony-turbo:

[-] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 1 month ago

I wanted to point out the same quote. Germany has been on the same ride, with absolutely laughable "anti-AfD" protests last winter giving way to the ruling socdem-conservative coalition proposing AfD immigration policy. Everyone missed the part where the AfD people said their most successful tactic has been moving the consensus on migrants towards their perspective.

[-] Sinister@hexbear.net 13 points 1 month ago

The only choice in Polish election are pro-Eu and pro-Eu but wag the finger at the queers in germany/france/netherlands/sweden

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 month ago

Nazis or whiny nazis

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 month ago

Lol they say it like it's a clever ruse they employed. They managed to sneak a "moderate" government into power by adopting policies to the right of the fascists!

[-] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 1 month ago

Sometimes I feel like the fashy stuff that happens in Poland is just a testing ground for larger rollouts in the rest of Europe. We'll be seeing this sort of thing across Europe more and more as the climate worsens and people are forced to leave their homes.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 month ago

It is and it always was. 1956, 1968, 1980, all were test runs before the western destabilisation efforts aimed at other places in East Europe.

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Definitely, just like Ukraine is a training ground for neonazi volunteers from all over Europe.

When Ukraine loses and all those freedom fighters come home they'll bring their connections, training, and combat experience with them, they'll have battle-hardened bonds across national borders, they'll be organised, radicalised, and desensitized to violence, they'll know how to utilise modern urban warfare tactics and latest NATO equipment.

And when western "moderates" start implementing those fascist policies and the left attempts to oppose them, the brownshirts will be ready.

(Edit) Here's a Ukrainian neonazi leader a few weeks before the Russian invasion, very informative video IMHO:

https://youtu.be/EFZf1h9H5js?si=0ft79otZj8YVnj71

[-] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 month ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[-] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago

That's how these things have been done in the past. Even if there isn't some master plan beforehand, whatever works for one reactionary will inspire another.

[-] Discopanda@hexbear.net 18 points 1 month ago

I fucking hate this so much. It's nothing more than pandering to right wing vote and strategy of tension kind of shit. If the government really wanted to end the border crisis they would use the a little thing called diplomacy and get a deal with Lukashenko. But they won't because in 2024 this kind of WW2 kind of nazi policy will get you votes from fascists and give explanation why you dont do shit to fix any of problems that you promised to fix.

[-] Addfwyn@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I am going to stop going to work, because making me go to work is a plot of putin to .

If you disagree, you are a putin apologist. I will still need that paycheque though.

Just reaching across the aisle to pander to the more fascist elements, nothing else.

[-] multitotal@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

directing the flow of migrants towards the European Union in a bid to destabilise the bloc

What happened to "refugees welcome" and "diversity is our strength"? Oh right, that was at a time when EU's core was booming because of cheap Russian gas, labour power was needed both to run the new industries and to replace the people emigrating from the EU periphery to the core. Now the cheap Russian gas is gone and people are realising that being an internal EU migrant isn't all that it's cracked up to be on account of racism. Now all of a sudden Fortress Evropa must be protected.

edit: mixed up some names

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 8 points 1 month ago

Fingers crossed- admittedly while I of course am on the opposite side of these racists, hopefully someday they shall wake up and find themselves minorities or only minor majorities in their countries. inshallah not because it is "racially better/superior," but because the diminishing of the cores in this aspect can only ever be a good thing and I'm all for it (and karma is hilarious)

Serves them right for having such a weak, pathetic, and completely artificial concept of """whiteness""" which falls into chaos when their cartoonishly strict "phenotype" is deviated from, or when someone is Muslim, etc...

[-] multitotal@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Serves them right for

selling off their countries' wealth and sovereignty to the US. How can one talk about "European states" when they have all become or are in the process of becoming identical neoliberal shitholes with some minor aesthetic differences.

It will never not be funny how Yugoslavia "erased" nationalities within it by checks notes having strong industries in every republic, allowing freedom of religion and proclaiming one's nationality, protecting languages, producing national media and culture, and actually celebrating diversity with "brothethood and unity" domestically and actual internationalism (international cooperation of different but equal cultures/countries/nations) on the global stage.

Much better now, after "independence": virtually no exports, laws written by Bruxelles, media comes from US, food comes from S. America, electronics come from China, kids spend more time learning English and German than their own language, dreaming of the day they can leave and never look back.

EU is a failed project and I can't wait for its demise.

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

Wholly agree, but my comment was in regards to the fears of "white replacement/etc" in Europe. Your description of how it was in Yugoslavia is a great example of what true diversity and civilization is supposed to be IMO- in comparison to the western notion of the ethno-state (or white nation-state) and where they reject the end result of people and cultures intermingling (ie. how ridiculous """white genocide""" by... miscegenation, immigration, etc is). Yugoslavia was how it should be, and what I described in my prior comment is how the west divided, conquered, and carved up the nation IMO.

[-] multitotal@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I know, I was tying onto this part:

for having such a weak, pathetic, and completely artificial concept of “”“whiteness”“”

I took "whiteness" to also mean "European culture" or more accurately "Central, Western and Northern European culture", because I think a lot of people see it that way, a culture they traded for dollars and a box set of Friends. So now all they have left, as you said is "a weak, pathetic, and completely artificial concept of whiteness", where people of vaguely Anglo/Northern European descent are the "whites" and everyone else is "other". "White culture" then becomes anything those people consume, regardless of how close or how far it is from historically European culture.

The nazis can't even agree on whether Christianity or Paganism is the trve whvte relvgvon. Are we defending the Pagans against the Abrahamic religions or are we defending the Christians against the Pagan and Muslim religions? The media called Ukrainians "white, Europeans" but then the Russians are "subhuman orcs". None of it makes any sense, and I don't think it is supposed to. It's just another form of control.

[-] SadArtemis@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago

Couldn't agree more to everything you said.

I think a lot of people see it that way, a culture they traded for dollars and a box set of Friends

And when you put it that way, oof. Not white but my parents traded much of theirs off for the bible and that didn't turn out well (as an understatement). Europe and the west will be spending a long time recovering, or trying to recover, from the "whiteness" they inflicted on themselves.

As someone whose partner is white I think I understand them a bit better seeing your comment as well. For me even if I wasn't raised in it and reconnecting with it is something I'll be doing all my life as a result, the identity and pride in it has always been strong (thanks to being a minority- the choice is either pride or shame IMO). I've often thought being white and having such easy assimilation must be both a blessing and a curse- but seeing you put it that way makes it sound even more wretched yet.

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 12 points 1 month ago

Wow, what a convenient excuse!

[-] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 1 month ago

You got to be joking 😂

[-] HorseRabbit@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 1 month ago

How weak is the EU that a couple thousand migrants will cause it to become "unstable"?

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 1 month ago

Line go up but house cold in winter, how come? Look around, some people brown.

[-] DankZedong@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago

The thing is that those migrants are not the cause, but rather the inconsistencies inherent to capitalism. But we cannot say that out loud because the 1% owns our means of production, the media, etc. And the migrants are easy targets. It's literally a perfect visual example of us vs them (white people vs non-white people) and many people fall for it sadly.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 month ago

I can't even fucking start to comment on this, way too angry about those nazi fucks.

[+] ClimateChangeAnxiety@hexbear.net 1 points 1 month ago

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