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cross-posted from: https://feddit.org/post/4262252

A combination of good high-speed internet coverage, high digital literacy rates, large rural populations and fast-growing fintech industries had put the Nordic neighbours on a fast track to a future without cash.

[...]

But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022 and a subsequent rise in cross-border hybrid warfare and cyber-attacks blamed on pro-Russia groups have prompted a rethink.

[...]

The Swedish government has since completely overhauled its defence and preparedness strategy, joining Nato, starting a new form of national service and reactivating its psychological defence agency to combat disinformation from Russia and other adversaries. Norway has tightened controls on its previously porous border with Russia.

[...]

[Norway's] justice and public security ministry said it “recommends everyone keep some cash on hand due to the vulnerabilities of digital payment solutions to cyber-attacks”. It said the government took preparedness seriously “given the increasing global instability with war, digital threats, and climate change. As a result, they’ve ensured that the right to pay with cash is strengthened”.

[...]

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[-] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 6 points 3 hours ago

If it isn't cash you have to ask permission from someone to use it

[-] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 3 points 3 hours ago

Exactly... I am amazed that we all allowed for things to get this bad.

A lot of work to try to undo this idiocy.

Deny money changers profit

[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 hours ago

Just having a power outage is enough lol, never mind an attack.

[-] irotsoma@lemmy.world 10 points 7 hours ago

Yeah, considering how bad banks and other financial institutions are at IT security and the fact that there's no incentive for a capitalist financial institution to fix that problem, it's not a good idea.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 4 points 6 hours ago

That's not entirely true. In order to be allowed to keep processing transactions you have to adhere to strict rules which do get regularly audited. And then there's the whole "customers will switch to another more reliable party in case of outages or security problems". And trust me, I've seen first-hand that they do.

[-] irotsoma@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago

You have to put on a show that you are sticking to those processes, on paper. But the fines for data breaches are generally way less than they save on not having a fully funded IT department and using security products that someone got a kickback for rather than the best product.

"Hacking" isn't some magical, intensely creative process for geniuses loke on TV. For the most part, it's usually just finding the really common things that IT departments don't do because they are underfunded and treat IT people like replaceable cogs. There is software out there to exploit those deficiencies. So they are forced to do things like use default or obvious admin passwords because who knows who is going to be there tomorrow to fix something and without the proper tools to store credentials, there's no way to properly secure things.

And when a security vulnerability is found, there's a reason why many don't bother informing the company before going to the media. Those companies pour tons of money into lawyers to avoid admitting the fault, often getting the innocent person who found the problem arrested, and never fix the actual issue. Just ask any pro whitehat security researcher not hired by the company all the things they have to do to protect themselves from being sued or arrested for "hacking" when they notice a problem.

And government technical auditors are a rarity because the regulators are underfunded. So they might go through some small list of things during regular audits, but they don't know to check if a DBMS system that contains backups and is stored "in the cloud" is using a default password or other common hacking targets. Hackers don't go after the primary infrastructure most of the time. It's not necessary because there are so many sloppy processes or left over insecure projects that "the last guy" was working on or that got defunded before it was completed, but only the primary infrastructure gets audited usually because that's all there is time and money for.

As for going somewhere else, there often aren't other places to go and when there are they usually have the same problem because there's very little reason for any of them to compete with each other. Most industries have consolidated so much that there are only a handful of parent companies left so it's easy to collude just because their leaders are often all in the same room at conferences and such.

[-] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 2 points 3 hours ago

I think you're being too pessimistic about IT security, particularly in the Financial sector. A lot of the security rules and audits aren't even government-run, it's the sector regulating itself. And trust me, they are pretty thorough and quite nitpicky about stuff.

The cost of failing an audit also often isn't even a fine, it's direct exclusion from a payment scheme. Basically, do it right or don't do it at all. Given that that is a strict requirement for staying in business, most of these companies will have sufficiently invested in IT security.

Of course it's not airtight, no system really is. But particularly in the financial sector most companies really do have their IT security in order.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 points 7 hours ago

Sure, but if a cyber attack knocks out your credit card systems in a targeted attack, chances are they're taking your cash machines down as well.

And who carries enough cash around to be useful any more? I know I don't. I might have a £20 note tucked in my phone case at a push.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 9 points 5 hours ago

And who carries enough cash around to be useful any more?

I do. Maybe not physically in my pocket, but between my wallet and my home there's enough cash to buy a tank of gas and a few days of groceries.

Parts of the debit/credit processing system are fragile enough that I've seen them down randomly for signifigant portions of a day.

Cash has got me food when other people have been stuck without the ability to pay more than once in the last couple of years.

[-] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 1 points 3 hours ago

Proper planning which more people should be doing!

But people also should be using cash as much as possible before regime takes it away.

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 20 points 12 hours ago

Not to mention total monetary surveillance

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 points 9 hours ago

Hmm, I don't anticipate the government to have many issues with that part... But if they have access, then enemies of the state may also gain access, which is the real problem they care about here.

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[-] lucullus@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 12 hours ago

Though having cash is not enough. The stores also need to be able to accept cash without internet usage. I think we had a case in germany a few years ago, where some supermarkets could not sell anything, because the servers, to which the local payment system connected (also uses for cash) didn't work. Not sure, if that was because of a security incident.

[-] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago

I see cash businesses all the time that can operate without power or Internet. Festival / market vendors, food trucks, etc. It's not hard to count money, give change, write down a receipt if needed.

[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 hours ago

Stores where I live have had to go cash only a few times a year when one or another issues shuts down their ability to accept cards.

You would think any functioning capitalist would have a backup method of taking your money.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 points 9 hours ago

Really? I would imagine stores could keep paper notes to record transactions and recheck inventory once internet access is restored.

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this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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