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A gentle reminder to not blame your allies today. The only person you should blame for Harris's loss is Kamala Harris (and maybe Joe Biden). (beehaw.org)
submitted 19 hours ago by theangriestbird@beehaw.org to c/politics@beehaw.org
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[alt text: a screenshot of a tweet by @delaney_nolan, which says, "Biden/Harris saw this polling and decided to keep unconditionally arming Israel". Below the tweet is a screenshot from an article, which states: "In Pennsylvania, 34% of respondents said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic nominee if the nominee vowed to withold weapons to Israel, compared to 7% who said they would be less likely. The rest said it would make no difference. In Arizona, 35% said they'd be more likely, while 5% would be less likely. And in Georgia, 39% said they'd be more likely, also compared to 5% who would be less likely."]

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[-] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 32 points 14 hours ago

Nah. I'm blaming our American people for this shit. Isreal or not, it was absolutely stupid and embarrassing to let that senile dumbass back into the white house. I would have rather had a slice of buttered bread running the country than this embarrassment.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 52 points 15 hours ago

No, it can be more than one person's fault. It's Harris's fault, and it's also the fault of the people who decided fascism was an acceptable alternative to capitalist liberalism.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 20 points 14 hours ago

I mean, you could try to understand what led people to that POV, and then build a coalition with those people so we can win next time. Or, we could just sit here and point fingers at each other til the end of time while the GOP continues to court more and more voters to their corner.

I'm all for being angry about this. It's the day after the election, I've been anxious all day. It sucks. But let's point our ire at the correct people: the Republicans that voted for Trump, and the Harris Campaign that did a piss poor job of courting undecided voters.

[-] HumbleFlamingo@beehaw.org 24 points 14 hours ago

so we can win next time

Assuming we get a next time. There's a non-zero chance we never get anything beyond sham federal elections from now on. They own the supreme court, and the supreme court has shown it doesn't give a fuck.

[-] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 11 points 14 hours ago

There is no next time. Don't you understand? The people who hated Harris more than they hated fascism, voted in a dictatorship. The goal from here isn't to win the next election, it's to get our trans friends out and start a revolution. Trump's reign will only be ended by violence. We aren't getting centrists' and moderates' help with that. They are the enemy. They are the complicit citizens of a nation we are going to war with. Some of them will try to stop us, and we need to be prepared to kill them.

[-] Thevenin@beehaw.org 54 points 16 hours ago

They made their decisions and you made yours. If you decided that we'd be better off with Trump, that's on you. Own it.

Putting Trump in office makes Gaza worse. He's promised us as much. Maybe you proved a point to the Democrats, and maybe you didn't. Maybe now they'll lean even harder to the center. Who knows. That's a gamble you took, and you made steep sacrifices to make that gamble.

Gambling with someone's life to make a political point does not make you their ally.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 18 points 14 hours ago

I'm sorry, did you personally count my ballot? Or are you just making assumptions about me?

[-] ModestMeme@lemm.ee 105 points 19 hours ago

This is absolute bullsh1t.

Trump has repeatedly said Netanyahu can do as he pleases, has repeatedly disparaged all Muslims, has repeatedly shown a political kinship with dictatorships.

Biden/Harris were protest targets in spite of it being the entirety of Congress that votes on/gives foreign aid because these protests were propaganda bent on disenfranchising Democrats and nothing else. The protests will wither to nothing now that pants-sh1tter rapist is going to be president.

You were duped. You fell for it. Gaza has zero chance now.

[-] InevitableList@beehaw.org 46 points 18 hours ago

You have to convince people to vote for you, you can't just rely on them voting against the other candidate. That's why voter turnout was lower than previous elections.

How many more elections will Democrats have to lose before they'll lean this lesson?

[-] azdalen@beehaw.org 51 points 18 hours ago

Not voting for KH & TW is saying that a fully-fascist America is A-OK with you. Full stop. There really isn't any way you can justify voting otherwise.

[-] YtA4QCam2A9j7EfTgHrH@infosec.pub 20 points 18 hours ago

I absolutely agree with you 100%. That still doesn’t address the fact that many people were less likely to vote for Harris if she continued to want to arm Israel. The stick of Trump was effective for getting yours and mine vote. Some other people needed the carrot of ending the Gaza Genocide. If they would have done the right thing, they had a chance of motivating those voters.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 19 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

That still doesn’t address the fact that many people were less likely to vote for Harris if she continued to want to arm Israel.

There have always been holocausts going on, somewhere in the world. A lot of times, the US is involved.

For a certain audience, the narrative was that Biden caused inflation and Trump would rescue them and make their economic lives easy. And look at that, they bought it. Even though it was opposite-land bullshit.

For a certain audience, the narrative was that Biden caused the holocaust in Gaza. And look at that, they bought it. There was some validity. But the new thing was that it was hugely important, all over their social media, and Biden was responsible, and it defined his presidency in a way that 100 other things he did failed to do.

It only got presented and spread so widely and presented so singularly as a Democrats-only issue, without acknowledgement that Trump will be ten times worse, a hundred times worse, because that presentation would hurt the Democrats.

There were other narratives in the same way. Immigration, either that Biden was too kind or too mean. Oldness and feebleness. Policing. The truth or falsehood didn’t matter. They were expertly crafted.

And the result? Now, after people bought and acted on them, hook line and sinker?

Buddy just you fucking wait. Gaza will get much worse, of course, but it will barely even register as a major problem, by the time all of this is said and done.

Whoever made the narratives got their fucking money’s worth, and then some.

Edit: It should be said that I think "It's not the voters' fault. It's Harris's fault that she didn't earn the votes." is another of those narratives. You've probably seen it a few times today. Why they're spending effort on pushing that new one, all of a sudden right after the election, I have no idea. It barely matters. But if you take a step back and think, it's a pretty weird thing to decide is important to say, if you're trying to do anything other than further depress support for anything left that's in power, and soothe the consciences of people who might have been involved in this catastrophe from the voter side.

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[-] Melkath@fedia.io 29 points 19 hours ago

Trump has repeatedly said Netanyahu can do as he please

So has Harris.

Biden/Harris were protest targets in spite of it being the entirety of Congress that votes on/gives foreign aid...

It is the Secretary of State who brokers deals. Congress follows the Executive branches lead for MOST funding. The Secretary of State answers to the President and Vice President.

You were duped. You fell for it. Gaza has zero chance now.

They never had a chance. You made sure of that. And, I'M SPEAKING HERE, all of the people in this echo chamber are to blame. We had a key opening when Biden was ousted to make change happen, to demand an open convention, to force the party left, to force a viable candidate, but instead, all of you latched on to Harris' dick and went to war, not with Republicans (you guys apparently love Republicans, Love them Cheney endorsements, want em in the cabinet), you went to war with undecideds and pushed them third party.

This is your fault.

Edit: And even after the loss, the clowns here that call themselves mods are deleting my comments because people are actually upvoting them now, and it makes them salty.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 20 points 18 hours ago

Trump has repeatedly said Netanyahu can do as he pleases, has repeatedly disparaged all Muslims, has repeatedly shown a political kinship with dictatorships.

Right, and Harris shouted down protesters and wouldn't denounce genocide. So if you are voting on this one single issue, you probably decide not to vote for either candidate, because they both cross your red line. However, most voters aren't single-issue voters, and Harris didn't provide much else in the way of policy to excite voters. Just vibes-based messaging and the occasional neoliberal economic policy.

So I repeat: Trump's win is Harris's fault. She had all the cards, and she flubbed it because she didn't want to piss off her billionaire donors.

[-] Sas@beehaw.org 11 points 16 hours ago

I feel like you as someone with pronouns in his bio should probably know that there are issues that the 2 available options differ in. So don't try to wash the blood of trans people, women and other minorities in the US off your hands. You're going to have to live with that because it ain't coming off

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 11 points 14 hours ago

How is there blood on my hands? I have not pretended that the candidates are the same. I wanted Harris to win. My point is that she ran a bad campaign.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 25 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Biden/Harris fucked up on more than just Gaza. Biden took action to address inflation, but Americans have continued to feel like their economic situation is worse off than it was 4 years ago. This is because grocery store and gas prices remain inflated, while the average American's income has stagnated. In short: corporate greed. Biden has done little to address corporate greed, and Harris did little to assure Americans that she would combat corporate greed or make Americans feel better about their personal finances. All evidence suggested that she would be even cozier with the billionaires than Biden was. Not hard to see why people stayed home when they felt like their choices were a billionaire and a billionaire-sympathizer.

In short, STOP BLAMING YOUR ALLIES. Trump's win is HARRIS'S FAULT.

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 13 hours ago

You are not my ally. You are useful idiot to my enemies at best, and my direct enemy at worst.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 6 points 13 hours ago

what makes me not your ally?

[-] Sas@beehaw.org 11 points 16 hours ago

Mate you are not our ally

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 11 points 15 hours ago

If you are not trying to make allies, that's fine. Just don't expect to ever win another election.

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 13 hours ago

I don't. I also don't believe we're ever going to get another (fair) election, thanks to your inaction. The rule of law is finished, because:

  • A convicted felon, in the middle of four separate criminal indictments
  • Known to have raped his wife
  • Raped a 14-year-old, probably raped a bunch of others with Epstein
  • Bragged about sexually assaulting many other women
  • Incited the Jan 6th riot to storm the White House and threaten to kill the vice president, as well as many other Congresspeople
  • Stole boxes and boxes of top secret CIA documents
  • Send many of those top secrets to foreign agents, including Putin, which got CIA agents killed
  • Praises dictators and the way they rule out in the open
  • Put three Supreme Court justices who are currently dismantling whatever judicial ideals the government has

That guy, he got voted president. If he can get re-elected after doing all of that shit, instead of being put in prison, then the rule of law is finished. We don't really have a functional government that punishes criminals. We're on the level of Brazil in terms of government corruption now, and quickly sliding into Turkey or Nazi Germany by the next decade.

Be sure to thank your fellow trans Beehaw Lemmy users [he/him] for deciding that your protest non-vote is more important than their lives, while they have their medical rights stripped, and their faces curb-stomped by an already-hostile public.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 6 points 12 hours ago

Thanks for assuming you know everything about me and what I am about. I voted for Harris. But unlike you, I respect the decision of people who didn't, because genocide is a pretty fucking fair red line to draw. If both sides are advocating genocide, I can respect that someone might feel like the entire American project is failed and fascism will be essentially the same. I am not trans, but I have talked to trans people in my life who were extremely committed to withholding their vote until like, this week. They knew they were potentially sacrificing their own rights, but voting for self-preservation felt selfish when entire cities are being wiped out by Israel. Ultimately, everyone I personally know in that camp decided to hold their nose and vote for Harris.

But go on assuming things about your allies and sowing division, I guess. It won't help anything, but whatever makes you feel better about Trump winning.

[-] pupbiru@aussie.zone 8 points 12 hours ago

their non-vote is a fucking fantasy… their non-vote is going to cause palestinians to lose their lives… because they didn’t have the fucking spine to make a decision that actually effects the outcome, their childish protest is going to cause lives to be lost

[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 36 points 17 hours ago

I'm sure the trans people whose lives are now in danger will sleep much better tonight knowing that the blood of those Palestinian children who are going to continue dying because Donald Trump has promised not to even try for a ceasefire isn't on your hands, because you didn't vote for Kamala Harris.

I hope you're fucking happy.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 9 points 14 hours ago

I'm sorry, did you personally check my ballot?

[-] DdCno1@beehaw.org 86 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

And Trump will be better for Palestinians how exactly? Anyone who prefers inane grandstanding instead of picking the lesser evil (no matter the topic) is a moron. That's how politics work. The ideal candidate doesn't exist and will never exist. If you ever come across one who 100% mirrors every single one of your opinions, get your head examined.

Edit: Also, every single credible poll out there indicates that American voters - idiotically - picked Trump due to their dissatisfaction with the economy. Middle Eastern wars were not high on the list of priorities for most voters.

[-] Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 31 points 19 hours ago

This exactly

Especially considering trump's opinion on them and Israel's stance on the election (wanting a trump victory) those should have been major red flags about a trump victory if you cared about Palestinians.

Voting the lesser evil is often how politics works. You pick the candidate you yu hate the least and try to mobilize more people in the future to get the policies you want.

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[-] InevitableList@beehaw.org 26 points 19 hours ago

And taking people's votes for granted worked how exactly?

Voter turn out was much lower than 2020 and 2016 just like this poll predicted.

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[-] liss_up@beehaw.org 27 points 16 hours ago

I'll remember how this was all Kamala's fault when Trump starts rounding people up. I'm sure it will bring me great comfort. I'm also sure it will bring great comfort to the people of Palesine because Trump DEFINITELY isn't going to keep arming Israel, and we know he's way more susceptible to public pressure than Harris would have been.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 10 points 14 hours ago

I'll also accept cursing Trump voters, as it is obvious that they will never be allies.

[-] Ethereal87@beehaw.org 26 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

So so so many people keep pointing at Trump and saying "But he's the worst/we're all doomed/holy shit you need to vote blue no matter who" and comments about "perfect being the enemy of the good" so we should hold our nose and support Democrats.

I feel like I'm the only person who remembers how hyperbolic we all were about Mitt Romney or John McCain being existential threats to democracy. South Park literally made fun of everybody at the time pointing at how running such a divisive campaign let them distract the public from their real goal of stealing the Hope Diamond (obviously). How many of us would BEG for Romney at the top of the Republican ticket at this point?

So sure, Trump is the threat now. When are we supposed to stop rewarding mediocre neoliberalism then? If it wasn't 2016 or 2020 or 2024 then when? Trump will eventually die and some new Republican will take his place as the leader of the party. EVERY Republican will be the next existential threat and we'll be scolded and told to hold our nose yet again and vote for the Democrat. If someone can tell me the "end date" where I don't have to choose between the lesser of two evils, I'd love to know when that is.

I don't blame other citizens for voting how they do. Everyone has to decide for themselves their red lines for support and in the privacy of the voting booth who they want to support. I do blame Democratic leadership for not learning a single lesson from 2016 about hand picking candidates and browbeating everyone into thinking that's OK.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 13 points 14 hours ago

You're exactly right, and this is my point. I'd bet damn near everyone commenting in this thread voted for Harris. It doesn't matter, we aren't the swing voters. And the swing voters are the ones that decided this election. There is nothing we can really do to convince swing voters, unless they are already our friends or family. It was Harris's job to come out with bold policy proposals and messages that would convince those swing voters. Instead, she peddled the same milquetoast neolib shit that has been losing Dems elections since the 90s.

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[-] ech@lemm.ee 46 points 18 hours ago

Hard to see people as allies who are willing to let the world burn because the only other option wasn't perfect. The campaign fucked up, for sure, but every voter that stayed home shares blame in this.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 7 points 14 hours ago

A lot of people (probably the majority) that stayed home didn't do so because of Gaza. They did so because they are too busy to keep up with the news, and nothing they heard about either candidate was compelling enough to get up off the couch on election night. It was Harris's job to reach and then convince those people.

[-] ech@lemm.ee 5 points 13 hours ago

I didn't say Gaza, and it doesnt matter why they couldn't be bothered. Their share remains the same.

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[-] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 24 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Same. I can’t see you as allies if you throw trans people, immigrants, disabled people and homeless people under the bus to protest a policy that will be even worse under the opposition.

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 52 points 19 hours ago

I steadfastly refuse to accept an apology on behalf of single-issue voters. Those abstentions and/or third party protest votes got us here. Anyone who refused to coalesce around (or at least hold their nose and vote for) the biggest "not Trump" candidate was failing to see or even acknowledge the bigger picture and larger threat. And now we all have to pay for that.

The electoral votes in a state go to the single candidate with the most votes. "Not Trump" was not a candidate. Furthermore, a third party candidate was never going to win. So, I will absolutely blame these so-called "allies" as I find them to be worse than the people who voted for Trump (at least they were honest about what they were doing).

I sincerely hope there is a future election where they have learned something from this. In the mean time, good luck everyone.

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 24 points 18 hours ago

most of the people you have probably argued with online about Harris and genocide probably did in fact hold their nose and vote for Harris. The people that stayed home were young people and Arab-Americans that have become disillusioned with the Dems, and the genocide was just the last straw. Many people who voted for Biden 4 years ago have found that their economic situation is worse than it was 4 years ago. Harris did little to convince people that her policy would be substantially different from Biden's. Most of her campaign's messaging was vibes-based shit like "coconut-pilled" and "we all need to heal" and "Madam President". In the rare instance that she talked economic policy, it was clear that she would be like Biden, except with more neoliberal cozying up to corporations.

The people I know who are plugged into politics simply sucked it up and voted for Harris, because they are realistic about things. If you are following the news like that, it is obvious that Trump is worse in every way conceivable. Most Americans are busy, poorly-educated, and not that plugged into politics. They get their news from Facebook or TikTok. For those people, it is the candidate's job to bring them on-side. Harris failed at that, plain and simple.

How about instead of blaming the people that Harris failed to convince, we talk about how we can invite those people back into our coalition? Personally, I'm ready to throw the Democratic party in the bin and start something new.

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[-] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 24 points 17 hours ago

I blame the people who voted for trump, personally. I'd be happy to watch the leopards eat their faces, but unfortunately we're all stuck with them.

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[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 15 points 15 hours ago

Gentle reminder: changing her stance on the Gaza genocide was the "damned if you do" side of the trap that she didn't go for.

Gentle idea: maybe think a few moves ahead. Even the conservatives were.

[-] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 18 hours ago

Fuck that, I'm blaming every single person that didn't vote for Harris

[-] theangriestbird@beehaw.org 7 points 14 hours ago

I mean, if you're referring to the people that voted for Trump, I'm right there with you. It's absolutely mind-boggling that a rapist and convicted felon won the popular vote.

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 12 hours ago

The majority of population aren't the ones who voted for Trump. The majority of the population didn't vote at all.

[-] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 11 hours ago

Yeah, they are just as guilty as the ones that voted for Trump (and the ones that voted third party) in my book

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[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 27 points 18 hours ago

"Don't blame your allies."

Proceeds to blame his allies, picking out the one wedge issue which the opponents used to greatest effect to split the left in this election.

Nothing in particular that would help anyone pick up the pieces, or figure out what happens now or what to do.

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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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