18
submitted 1 week ago by ooli@lemmy.world to c/space@lemmy.world
top 10 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] magiccupcake@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

As someone who is currently studying dark matter, MOND is currently disfavored in the field of cosmology. It does not as simply or effectively describe galaxies closer to home, or observations of the cosmic microwave background. These galaxies pose a challenge to lambda-CDM, but that does not prove MOND correct.

[-] Lightfire228@pawb.social 7 points 1 week ago

As someone who watches a lot of PBS Space Time and Dr. Becky, I'm always very suspicious of any news article claiming '"JWST has found evidence for X", especially if it's an alternative to Lambda CDM

[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 1 points 1 week ago

However, McGaugh and his colleagues argue that these predictions do not match JWST observations. Instead, the newly observed galaxies appear bright, large, and fully formed, even as scientists peer deeper into the universe’s past. This unexpected brightness directly challenges the conventional understanding of galaxy formation driven by dark matter.

Are you sure these aren't old galaxies? Like, how do we know that we aren't in a relatively small little bubble and there's an infinite universe out there where there isn't a single big bang, but instead small bangs that happen every now and then. Maybe if a black hole gets massive enough then its gravity "overflows" and causes it to vomit everything up; and all those bright, fully-formed galaxies are actually unrelated and proceeded the big bang.

[-] cynar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The big bang wasn't an explosion in space, but OF spacetime. Anything that might have existed before would have been fundamentally different, and completely destroyed in the event.

From the formation of the CMB we know that the whole universe was a hot and dense plasma that cooled and became transparent.

Are you proposing that these galaxies existed before and external to the CMB plasma ball "big bang" that we came from?

As in, a bunch of matter appears inside of a pre-existing universe as a local big bang, whose galaxies spread out amongst preexisting galaxies from older big bang events?

Then you propose that matter which has been hoarded by black holes may be the source of the matter in subsequent big bangs, to achieve a steady state.

I like the idea you are proposing.


My biggest question is: why didn't our "bang" blow all of the older generation of galaxies away from it such that we would never see them? My understanding is that spacetime itself is what expands / inflates in λcdm. It does so faster than the speed of light such that there is material in our universe from which light will never reach us. It's very hard to see things outside of a universe that expands faster than the light we use to observe it. It's spacetime itself that's expanding, not just the objects moving apart.

But, MOND is MOdified Newtonian Dynamics, and currently doesn't work with Einstein/GR... at all! So, if MOND is right maybe we should expect a different mechanism than Einstein expansion.


Most likely we just don't understand what stars and nebula looked like or how they formed back before metals existed and so we don't know how bright these galaxies should be to begin with because we don't know how stars work without metal. The assumption in the paper is irresponsibly invalid, we can't just assume that stars back then followed the same patterns as stars do now. Stars form from nebulae because metals condense out and coalesem creating nucleation sites for mass accretion. Earlier generations of stars would need to rely on different formation mechanisms, and likely had a different size and brightness distribution. We won't understand these early stars and galaxies until we've been looking at them for at least a decade.

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

We aren't looking at those old galaxies today. Due to the speed of light and the vast distance involved we are looking at the light from those galaxies when they were very young and early in the life of the universe (that's why we are looking there in the first place). That light is just now reaching us. We have theorized about white holes but never seen one. By looking at closer objects we already know what an old galaxy looks like. And nothing can by definition exist before the big bang. Because before the big bang there wasn't any space for things to exist in. Nothing precedes it.

[-] Atlas_@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

I know not enough physics to tell if this is reasonable but...

What if there's not just 4 base forces but 5, or an infinite class of them? Say something that falls off sub-quadratically but with a significantly lower constant than gravity? Or a whole class of forces that fall off less and less slowly, but have smaller and smaller constants as they do?

[-] cynar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The forces, to be a useful modelling tool, need a medium to interact with matter. E.g. an equivalent of charge would always be zero, if matter didn't have the ability to have charge. At that point, it effectively doesn't exist.

Interestingly, the strong, weak and electromagnetic forces are also aspects of the same force. They unify at high enough energy levels. They only appear different. The exception is gravity. It doesn't fit the mould. Basically we don't currently have 4 forces, but only 2. Scientists suspect it's actually only 1, but can't yet unify gravity into a theory of everything via a theory of quantum gravity.

[-] Zannsolo@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

But isn't gravity a function of spacetime not matter? Where's the others are all behaviors of matter? Like there isn't a gravity partical or a spacetime partical.

[-] cynar@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Ultimately, physics follows the maths, everything else is interpretation to comprehend what the maths is telling us.

In relativity, gravity is a smooth, continuous distortion of spacetime. In QM, gravity is just another force, mediated by the graviton. Both theories are consistent with the known maths. The fact that they don't agree shows the large hole we have in the maths.

In short, we don't know what gravity is. Then again, we don't know what most things are, once we did deep enough. We just have maths, with interpretations that let our monkey brains make sense of them.

My favourite example ample of this is the "dark sucker theory". Envision a universe where light producing objects don't produce light, but suck up dark. We can make the model work for our universe. The reason we don't use it is due to it being harder to work with than the light emitter model. Another one is the rabit hole of what relativity says about the existence of light (hint light doesn't exist, from light's point of view).

this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
18 points (90.9% liked)

Space

8669 readers
2 users here now

Share & discuss informative content on: Astrophysics, Cosmology, Space Exploration, Planetary Science and Astrobiology.


Rules

  1. Be respectful and inclusive.
  2. No harassment, hate speech, or trolling.
  3. Engage in constructive discussions.
  4. Share relevant content.
  5. Follow guidelines and moderators' instructions.
  6. Use appropriate language and tone.
  7. Report violations.
  8. Foster a continuous learning environment.

Picture of the Day

The Busy Center of the Lagoon Nebula


Related Communities

🔭 Science

🚀 Engineering

🌌 Art and Photography


Other Cool Links

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS