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submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by TheArstaInventor@lemmy.world to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

As a strong supporter of open-source and community-funded projects like Lemmy, which prioritize serving users over investors, I believe Lemmy has significant potential, and that's why I am here. However, it is clear that its growth is nearing a plateau in its current form. Despite the surge in users following Reddit's API changes, Lemmy continues to primarily attract tech-savvy individuals, politically left-aligned users, and those accustomed to old Reddit. For Lemmy to reach the broader average general audience, meaningful changes are necessary.

The rise of Bluesky demonstrates the importance of ease of use and a user-friendly design. Its polished and familiar interface is a key reason for its growth and appeal as an alternative to platforms like X/Twitter. This same ease of use is what Mastodon lacked, leading to its initial hype fading quickly. The average user is unlikely to adapt to something that feels complicated or unfamiliar, and this challenge also applies to Lemmy.

As someone who started as an average Reddit user and became more tech-savvy over time, I can confidently say that first impressions matter. When users first visit lemmy.world, the default UI is often enough to discourage them from staying. Most will not explore the homepage sidebar to explore, figure out and switch to one of the alternative UIs available, which is unfortunate because a better UI could make a huge difference.

This is why I propose that large servers like lemmy.world adopt Photon UI as the default web interface. Photon is currently the best and most mature alternative UI, offering a visually appealing, modular design that feels familiar to users of new Reddit. It makes excellent use of screen space and provides customization options like compact and cozy views. Unlike some other alternative UIs, Photon is actively maintained and ready for widespread use, although in no way is it perfect, this can also help bring in more contributors to the project development.

While it is important to continue offering other UIs as options, I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user. First impressions are crucial, and the current default UI has turned off many potential users. If we want Lemmy to succeed as a true Reddit alternative, we need to prioritize user experience and accessibility. Thankfully today, Lemmy still continues to be THE biggest Reddit alternative, while our userbase is still considerably smaller than Reddit, it's the biggest of any alternatives, and Lemmy continues to somewhat be in the spotlight for those seeking alternatives, we can't let growth stagnate, it's high time we make the platform more welcoming and appealing for the average joe.

EDIT: The image I attached is from photon.lemmy.world, which I just realized is using the outdated version of Photon, I have updated the image to the updated current photon version from phtn.app. There are a lot of improvements made.

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[-] thebardingreen@lemmy.starlightkel.xyz 37 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I love the Lemmy UI.

But I'm a gen Xer.

There's some great analysis floating around of how different generations actually interpret UIs (and make decisions about how or whether to engage with them) very differently. So there is no "one size fits all" that will make everybody happy. Change the Lemmy UI to something like Photon and I'd be like... "this is dumb." Making a bunch of very different options is a lot of work. If you want to do it... no one is stopping you. The Lemmy project is opensource and you could go start contributing and making pull requests today. You could go run your own instance and make it look like whatever you want and get the average redditors to join that. I run my own instance. We have a whole two users. It works exactly the way I want it to and federates with exactly who I want it to.

Frankly, I'm not sure Lemmy needs to go out of it's way to appeal to the average redditor in order to have a thriving, healthy community. Sure, there are some things I miss about having a giant user base to engage with, but honestly, I'll trade them for the MUCH MUCH lower toxicity. I don't know that "growing Lemmy" should be our focus. It's not like we're getting paid.

[-] 30p87@feddit.org 4 points 7 months ago

I love the Lemmy UI, and am a Gen Z. There's nothing worse than a UI that's slow, takes more time than necessary to load and is overloaded. I would much rather have bare HTTP forms or just make curl calls than using (new) reddit or Photon.

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[-] superkret@feddit.org 31 points 7 months ago

it is clear that its growth is nearing a plateau in its current form.

Good! Lemmy doesn't need to become big, especially since the less techy masses will likely put loads of load on privately hosted instances without bothering to donate.
The growth could actually kill Lemmy.

I believe adopting Photon as the default UI could make Lemmy far more appealing to the average Reddit user.

Please no!

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 10 points 7 months ago

I mean, yes. And I also like the oldschool interface, it does have its iffy corners but the overall layout and UX is great.

That said, there's a difference between "avoid (success at all costs)" and "(avoid success) at all cost". We should be making lemmy better for the purpose of making lemmy better, we shouldn't be changing it just to please random people so they come over.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 7 points 7 months ago

We're at 44k monthly active users https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/dailystats

100k or 200k wouldn't kill the platform

[-] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 3 points 7 months ago

I disagree. We want all people and all perspectives. Federarion needs to become the default to put enough pressure on the big tech companies to get all people on a common protocal. It is the ideal that web3.0 promised to be.

Also we need to monitise lemmy so that running an instance is profitable enough to support the usrload. I think we can do this via lemmy gold make it monero based where a golded post/comment get split between instance/community/post/comment. Align profit incentives with making federated media better for everyone.

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[-] squirrel@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 7 months ago

I know I'm tech-savvy, but I actually enjoy the fact that Lemmy (and the Fediverse) doesn't hand everything to me easily on a plate. The hunt for new interesting communities, my long well curated block list, setting up Lemmy apps exactly to my preferences is part of the fun.

If someone handed me a fully configured Voyager app on day one, I wouldn't have had all the exciting experiences trying a bunch of apps to find the best one for me, learning how to block instances and communities, learning how to correctly link to communities and users, finding new ways to discover communities.

All this stuff is part of why I come back here everyday. A ready out-of-the-box solution is kinda boring.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 11 points 7 months ago

A lot of the comments including yours sound gatekeep-y to me but I have to say I kind of feel the same way.

Everyone who has come here and stuck around found their way through the jank and is joining an exclusive club of high-quality discussion. Like Linux, once you can get past the basics, you can customize your experience nearly limitlessly, but it takes effort, trial and error to get to something you like.

[-] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

I’m not at all tech savvy[1], but it’s not that hard, honestly.

[1] context: I know that when a steam game doesn’t work, sometimes I need to reinstall a driver, but I never remember how or where to do that. I use an iPhone from 2016, and I unlock it with my fingerprint.

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 15 points 7 months ago

I just use the Voyager app, which has a great UI, with no need to visit the website at all.

[-] TheArstaInventor@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

I should mention this is mainly for desktop users :), but even for mobile users, people usually check the website first before downloading apps.

[-] RmDebArc_5@sh.itjust.works 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)
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[-] MudMan@fedia.io 11 points 7 months ago

I'm on Fedia. It's pretty solid, UI-wise. I actually find it more usable than Reddit and its terrible way of trimming down threads by default.

What I've seen of Lemmy does seem a bit messier to read, though.

[-] johntash@eviltoast.org 10 points 7 months ago

I might have missed it, but why is it clear that lemmy is reaching a plateau of users?

[-] Shatur@lemmy.ml 7 points 7 months ago

The rise of Bluesky demonstrates the importance of ease of use and a user-friendly design. Its polished and familiar interface is a key reason for its growth and appeal as an alternative to platforms like X/Twitter.

I think many people use Bluesky instead of Mastodon because of its UX, not its UI. Both looks great (I think Mastodon even nicer!).

I personally use Mastodon, but I've seen people complain about their experience with it.

[-] Badeendje@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

The ootb experience is what matters to most. As people seem to just want it to work. I personally love the bare bones.. but most users don't really customize much or want to conduct a whole study on alternative apps or settings. I would be fine with polished and basic settings complemented with an advanced settings menu and other apps.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 7 months ago

most users don’t really customize much or want to conduct a whole study on alternative apps or settings.

Usually I just recommend

They can figure the rest themselves later, but that's usually a good way to set people up

[-] astro_ray@piefed.social 7 points 7 months ago

Lemdro.id uses Photon as it's default UI, but it's incredibly slow and sometimes it doesn't even load properly. As much as I love the polish, I wouldn't recommend it as default UI. Using photon as an alternative UI is much better option.

[-] Xylight@lemm.ee 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Hi everyone, I'm the dev. Reading all these comments really hurts when it's something you've poured your heart and soul into for over a year.

There's reasons I do everything I do in this UI, and my primary goal is to make Lemmy accessible for everyone.

This is the "cozy" view as well, but there's a "compact" view for people like me who enjoy more information density. Again, my end goal is to make Lemmy accessible. I don't do this for the sidebars for convoluted reasons I won't get into.

I'm not the one trying to advertise it, and I've never really tried to because of the fear of disapproval. I think I should advertise it myself now because then I can showcase the best parts and not get misunderstood. This screenshot uses the "list" view, imo the worst one, with some cursed chrome scrollbars.

Now that I see that the majority of users believe this sucks, I'm not sure if my mission is worth it or if I'm even doing it right.

I'm probably being too sensitive to criticism which I should expect from any project. But this project is the only one I used to feel proud of, then people chiming in claiming it's the ugliest thing they've seen. I don't know im blind to design which is the only thing I considered myself "good" at in terms of web dev.

[-] dizzy@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 months ago

Don’t be disheartened. You did a great job with your version.

People complain about Apple and Google UIs that they spend hundreds of millions on creating and user-testing. There’s no one-fits-all in UI or UX.

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[-] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Don't take it that way. I find the default UI horrible and primarily use Lemmy on Voyager on my phone because of it. Finding this thread let me find that I can comfortably use Lemmy on desktop too! 🥳

I didn't join Lemmy for a while because I liked the "new" reddit UI better and found Lemmy too different to use easily. I tried all the different options and I didn't like them. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED ON DESKTOP!

And remember survivorship bias. The ones that can put up with the Lemmy UI, or switch to something they like better, are (for the most part) the only ones here now giving feedback.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 2 points 7 months ago

Hello @Xylight@lemm.ee ,

First of all, really sorry that you took it that way. A few comments were indeed harsh, and I guess people were just focused on the interface and forgot that there's actually someone behind it.

I personally value Photon a lot, it definitely helps a lot of people who prefer this type of interfaces.

I think I should advertise it myself now because then I can showcase the best parts and not get misunderstood.

I think you don't even need to advertise it that much. We have Photon as an alternative frontend on one of the instances I follow, and people regularly bug the admin to update it because they like it!

The negativity this post received is probably because interfaces are a very personal matter, and trying to uniformize the default interface is always going to lead to heated discussions

Take care, you are doing an amazing job.

FYI @TheArstaInventor@lemmy.world

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[-] Cephalotrocity@biglemmowski.win 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

The Lemmy UI is easy enough to use IMO. Where the problems show up are:

  • Unreliable linking to other comments and posts. It is annoying to no end to receive a link to someone's comment and be unceremoniously ripped out of your home server and put onto the federated one no longer logged in etc... This behaviour should somehow be prevented

  • a quick reference to the text commands easily found somewhere (ie: sidebar)

  • I'd prefer more theme and colour options

  • Fix the text interface so it respects carriage return entries properly. If I want to start a new line directly under the current one (edit: AFI knew after 4+ months of use) there is

no way

to do

it.

Make it so a single carriage return is acknowledged and correctly starts a new line right underneath, or automatically forces a blank line between. This needing double entry is unintuitive and wrecks many new user's first hundred post's appearance.

Finally, the premise: Lemmy.world should be more welcoming is itself undesirable. That instance is already taking up an inordinate number of users so IMO every other instance (except the awful ones, we all know who they are) should be using a better UI, not L.W

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

no way

to do

it.

your can use
two space at the end of the line
to achieve this

For the links, it's being worked on, should be part of 0.20: https://lemmy.ml/post/23245384

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[-] souperk@reddthat.com 6 points 7 months ago

One thing to consider here is that photon as an spa does not offer great support search engines. Which can help drive organic traffic to lemmy. While, some may see it as a net benefit, from your point of view it's an great disadvantage.

[-] Metz@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Why photon? alexandrite is insanely much better imho: https://a.lemmy.world

[-] chillinit@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 7 months ago

For Lemmy to reach the broader average general audience

Fucking capitalists will enshitify this also.

[-] TheArstaInventor@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

How will they? A new UI adaptation won't change the fact that Lemmy is community-run, federated/decentralized and not owned by a corporation?

[-] chillinit@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

reach the broader average general audience

[-] neatchee@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago

That's quite a novel way of saying "I don't know what enshitification is actually about, nor do I understand why broad adoption is critical for protecting the long-term existence of community maintained software". Kudos on your creativity!

Seriously though, "keeping good things small for the sake of keeping them free of interference by capitalist interests" is misguided. Quite the contrary, leaving a large audience on the table is a surefire way to guarantee that an opportunistic capitalist will capture that market and drive community maintained options into obscurity.

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[-] Blaze@feddit.org 4 points 7 months ago

Photon is currently the best and most mature alternative UI, offering a visually appealing, modular design that feels familiar to users of new Reddit.

What about Tesseract?

https://dubvee.org/

This is why I propose that large servers like lemmy.world adopt Photon UI as the default web interface.

That's something to be discussed per server. You should maybe ask LW staff to open a poll on their announcements community

[-] nesc@lemmy.cafe 4 points 7 months ago

Mastodon is easy to use, it had no chance to become neo-twitter for other reasons.

Can you accept organic growth and not being the bestest best with three billions people?

[-] Zoldyck@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

I mostly agree. Maybe a nice idea to make it opt-in by default, with the option to switch back to the 'old' UI

[-] Schal330@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

Perhaps a modal the first time someone visits that shows the different UI options and directions on where to switch

[-] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 2 points 7 months ago

You really trying to convince us with a screenshot of the ugliest ui i ever seen huh

[-] imPastaSyndrome@lemm.ee 2 points 7 months ago

Yeah I used old Reddit. I don't want something that looks like new Reddit

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[-] kinther@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I personally really dislike new reddit and the Photon theme. I'd say no to any change to my main instance.

[-] avieshek@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I would actually prefer this: sacred.computer

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this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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