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submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

Hello! 😀
I want to share my thoughts on docker and maybe discuss about it!
Since some months I started my homelab and as any good "homelabing guy" I absolutely loved using docker. Simple to deploy and everything. Sadly these days my mind is changing... I recently switch to lxc containers to make easier backup and the xperience is pretty great, the only downside is that not every software is available natively outside of docker 🙃
But I switch to have more control too as docker can be difficult to set up some stuff that the devs don't really planned to.
So here's my thoughts and slowly I'm going to leave docker for more old-school way of hosting services. Don't get me wrong docker is awesome in some use cases, the main are that is really portable and simple to deploy no hundreds dependencies, etc. And by this I think I really found how docker could be useful, not for every single homelabing setup, and it's not my case.

Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I let you talk about it in the comments, thx.

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[-] SpazOut@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

For me the power of docker is its inherent immutability. I want to be able to move a service around without having to manual tinker, install packages and change permissions etc. It’s repeatable and reliable. However, to get to the point of understanding enough about it to do this reliably can be a huge investment of time. As a daily user of docker (and k8s) I would use it everyday over a VM. I’ve lost count of the number of VMs I’ve setup following installation guidelines, and missed a single step - so machines that should be identical aren’t. I do however understand the frustration with it when you first start, but IMO stick with it as the benefits are huge.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Yeah docker is great for this and it's really a pleasure to deploy apps so quickly but the problems comes later, if you want to really customize the service to you, you can't instead of doing your own image...

[-] SpazOut@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

In most cases you can get away with over mounting configuration files within the container. In extreme cases you can build your own image - but the steps for that are just the changes you would have applied manually on a VM. At least that image is repeatable and you can bring it up somewhere else without having to manually apply all those changes in a panic.

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 months ago

And I've done the exact opposite moves everything off of lxc to docker containers. So much easier and nicer less machines to maintain.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Less "machines" but you need to maintain docker containers at the end

[-] Decq@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

I've never really like the convoluted docker tooling. And I've been hit a few times with a docker image uodates just breaking everything (looking at you nginx reverse proxy manager...). Now I've converted everything to nixos services/containers. And i couldn't be happier with the ease of configuration and control. Backup is just.a matter of pushing my flake to github and I'm done.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Already said but I need to try NixOS one day, this thing seems to worth it

[-] beerclue@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

I'm actually doing the opposite :)

I've been using vms, lxc containers and docker for years. In the last 3 years or so, I've slowly moved to just docker containers. I still have a few vms, of course, but they only run docker :)

Containers are a breeze to update, there is no dependency hell, no separate vms for each app...

More recently, I've been trying out kubernetes. Mostly to learn and experiment, since I use it at work.

[-] macgyver@federation.red 1 points 3 months ago

Docker compose plus using external volume mounts or using the docker volume + tar backup method is superior

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

Can be but I'm not enough free, and this way I run lxc containers directly onto proxmox

[-] macgyver@federation.red 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You’re basically adding a ton of overhead to your services for no reason though

Realistically you should be doing docker inside LXC for a best of both worlds approach

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

I accept the way of doing, docker or lxc but docker in a lxc is not suitable for me, I already tried it and I've got terrible performance

[-] SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago

I used docker for my homeserver for several years, but managing everything with a single docker compose file that I edit over SSH became too tiring, so I moved to kubernetes using k3s. Painless setup, and far easier to control and monitor remotely. The learning curve is there, but I already use kubernetes at work. It's way easier to setup routing and storage with k3s than juggling volumes was with docker, for starters.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

What are really the differences between docker and kubernetes?

[-] SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Both are ways to manage containers, and both can use the same container runtime provider, IIRC. They are different in how they manage the containers, with docker/docker-compose being suited for development or one-off services, and kubernetes being more suitable for running and managing a bunch of containers in production, across machines, etc. Think of kubernetes as the pokemon evolution of docker.

[-] suodrazah@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago

...a single compose file?!

[-] SanndyTheManndy@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

Several services are interlinked, and I want to share configs across services. Docker doesn't provide a clean interface for separating and bundling network interfaces, storage, and containers like k8s.

[-] huskypenguin@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 months ago

I love docker, and backups are a breeze if you're using ZFS or BTRFS with volume sending. That is the bummer about docker, it relies on you to back it up instead of having its native backup system.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago

What are you hosting on docker? Are you configuring your apps after? Did you used the prebuild images or build yourself?

[-] huskypenguin@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 months ago

I should also say I use portainer for some graphical hand holding. And I run watchtower for updates (although portainer can monitor GitHub's and run updates based on monitored merged).

For simplicity I create all my volumes in the portainer gui, then specify the mount points in the docker compose (portainer calls this a stack for some reason).

The volumes are looped into the base OS (Truenas scale) zfs snapshots. Any restoration is dead simple. It keeps 1x yearly, 3x monthly, 4x weekly, and 1x daily snapshot.

All media etc.. is mounted via NFS shares (for applications like immich or plex).

Restoration to a new machine should be as simple as pasting the compose, restoring and restoring the Portainer volumes.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago

I don't really like portainer, first their business model is not that good and second they are doing strange things with the compose files

[-] IrateAnteater@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 months ago

I'm learning to hate it right now too. For some reason, its refusing to upload a local image from my laptop, and the alarm that comes up tells me exactly nothing useful.

[-] huskypenguin@sh.itjust.works 0 points 3 months ago

I use the *arr suite, a project zomboid server, a foundry vtt server, invoice ninja, immich, next cloud, qbittorrent, and caddy.

I pretty much only use prebuilt images, I run them like appliances. Anything custom I'd run in a vm with snapshots as my docker skills do not run that deep.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 months ago

This why I don't get anything from using docker I want to tweak my configuration and docker is adding an extra level of complexity

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 months ago

Tweak for what? Compile with the right build flags been there done that not worth the time.

[-] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 months ago

If I want really to dive in the config files and how this thing works, no normal install I can really easily, on docker it's something else

[-] markc@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

Docker is a convoluted mess of overlays and truly weird network settings. I found that I have no interest in application containers and would much prefer to set up multiple services in a system container (or VM) as if it was a bare-metal server. I deploy a small Proxmox cluster with Proxmox Backup Server in a CT on each node and often use scripts from https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/. Everything is automatically backed up (and remote sync'd twice) with a deduplication factor of 10. A Dockerless Homelab FTW!

this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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