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Everyone sort of figured he would once he won his rigged elections again. Gods I hope we don’t let him join the EU.
Huge democratic deficit and do they really follow European customs and values?
"European customs and values" is a bit hard to define I feel. The eastern European states are quite different from the rest. Poland and Sweden are in stark contrast to one another, as is even Sweden and Germany.
I'd like to say that the EU is quite strongly in favour of democracies, which Turkey definitely isn't. I've a dear friend who basically didn't dare discuss politics because of the potential fallout that could have on his job and living situation. He's since moved away from Turkey and his life has improved dramatically.
It's difficult for me as a Swede to reconcile the fact that speaking out against the state could land me in hot water. Like I can call our PM a bag of dicks, and make poop-caricatures of any parliament member all day if I wanted to, and it wouldn't necessarily have any fallout beyond burning some bridges with people.
Turkey's also heavily religious conservative, and as a gay person that doesn't sit well with me. That extends to all currently-in-the-EU countries that match that description as well, though.
Quite the shock when Erdogan tried to blackmail his country into the EU. I hope Sweden will also not give in when it comes to burning religious books.
I would say there is a huge difference in culture and values when comparing to those people from Turkey who are very conservative or religious. We even have some here who voted in Germany for Erdogan!
But the difference isn’t that big with secular, non-conservative people. It is like Turkey has two sides.
European values are irrelevant for being a NATO member. But I believe being a democracy is a requirement, but USA is a somewhat flawed democracy too. But hen again no democracy is perfect.
Isn’t abolishing the death penalty part of the requirements? And there’s some more that makes it simply unrealistic to think it’s happening in the next decade or two.
It's like a 30 point check list and so far they've completed zero or maybe one. It's a long way.
Erdogan reinstated the death penalty at the coup, so basically he has moved away from EU membership since taking control.
I think it's a good thing that it is a long process, even if people moan about Ukraine not getting a shortcut. Imagine if Turkey had completed the membership before the coup. That would have been horrible today. Similarly it would be unwise to allow Ukraine in right now, since we have no idea of what will happen after the war. A dictator could potentially take the power there too. The requirements aren't just bureaucracy, they do serve a purpose.
Personally I hope that they both succeed eventually, but it has to be done properly. Both Ukraine and Turkey could contribute positively to EU if only they manage to get proper democratic governments and follow human rights etc. first.
Lol wow. Erdogan was singing a very different tune less than 8 hours ago. I’d guess that some very pointed threats around security guarantees and future arms sales were made by the rest of the alliance for him to do an about-face that quickly.
I can't imagine he's someone to strongarm. Nor would it be good for the alliance if members are forced into accepting things they don't want.
I'd imagine he got his desired concessions, or it was mostly just bluster for internal politics.
I think the US delegation took him aside and said something along the lines of “alright chucklefuck, going forward, if you want parts and technical support for any of the massive amounts of extremely advanced military shit we’ve sold you for decades, you’re going to stop fucking around on the Sweden accession”.
Yeahhh that's not how diplomacy works. That's how edgy high school kids would imagine running NATO.
lmao, thought it was a joke.
Wait it isn't?
You can't fool us Erdogan, we've seen this move before.
By tomorrow he'll have new demands. He'll demand Sweden form a space agency and plant the Turkish flag on the moon or something like that, mark my words.
So I guess Turkey is getting some shiny new F16s?
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this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
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