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submitted 1 year ago by ooli@lemmy.world to c/science@lemmy.world
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[-] Hugin@lemmy.world 97 points 1 year ago

This article is a mess and badly written.

Basicly magnetism comes from electron spin orientation. There are two well known spin configurations.

Ferromagnetism: there is at least one electron with a spin that isn't paired with an opposite spin electron. That atom then has a north and south magnetic pole. Like iron. Arrange all the atoms pointing the same way and you have a refrigerator magnet.

antiferromagnetism: all the electrons in the atom are paired with an opposite spin election. It's complicated but basically they couple together and there isn't a magnetic pole outside the atom. Like in copper.

Altermagnetism: what this article is about. You have a crystal of atoms with an unpaired electrons. The crystal would normally be ferromanetic. However they are arranged in a regular set of pairs that cause the electron spin to cancle out. Think of a checkerboard pattern where each white square cancels a black square next to it.

The antiferromagnetism and altermagnetism both have the spins cancelled out but the mechanism is different so there are different properties. Kramers degenerate vs wavevector.

In theory this gives you an extra state spin. So a magnetic drive uses a pattern of north and south to encode information. Ie NNSN becomes 0010.

With this you have north, south but also spin left, right. So you can encode more information.

[-] Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk 11 points 1 year ago

Thank you. That was explained very well!

[-] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 55 points 1 year ago
[-] SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago

I have no idea about the numbering, but I know of at least

  • Ferromagnetism (like a fridge magnet)
  • Antiferromagnetism (opposite of ferromagnetism at an atomic level)
  • Diamagnetism (makes superconductors float)
  • Paramagnetism (like that spinny frog)

These all indicate how a material reacts to a magnetic field. This article discusses "altermagnetism", which is somewhere between ferromagnetism and antiferromagnetism.

[-] knightly@pawb.social 18 points 1 year ago
[-] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 37 points 1 year ago

Is that the kind that jumps out of aeroplanes?

[-] kewko@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 year ago

Nah, it's the one with the chair

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 19 points 1 year ago

This thread is already too smart for me

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Pretty sure it's the other non-brand name for acetaminophen.

[-] NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 4 points 1 year ago

That’s the copper one right?

[-] lauha@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

No, the aluminum one.

[-] NoIWontPickAName@kbin.earth 2 points 1 year ago

That’s the copper one right?

[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 32 points 1 year ago

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

Unironically, magnetism is similar to charge, which is similar to mass.

You (probably) wouldn't ask "But why does an atom weigh anything?" or "why do opposite charges attract?" All these things are just intrinsic properties of matter: they just have them.

So the answer to questions regarding why anything has mass/charge/magnetic moment really come down to "they just do."

Now, if you want to talk about how and why magnets work at a macroscopic scale, we can have a long and interesting chat about long range ordering and phase transitions, but I'll leave that for now :)

[-] Ageroth@reddthat.com 18 points 1 year ago

There's a lot more to it than "they just do" we just don't know yet because there's actually a lot we don't understand about the fundamental properties of, well, fundamental particles.

See the higgs boson as for why matter has mass. We used to say "inertia is a property of matter" but some clever fucks figured out why and then proved it.

[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I would argue that the Higgs mechanism is just that: A mechanism for explaining where mass comes from. You could explain charge in a similar way by saying "because the particles are made of a certain amount of up or down quarks".

Neither of these explanations answer the underlying question "but why does the Higgs mechanism give things mass?" or "but why do up/down quarks give things charge?".

My point is that, at some stage, you get to the point of "the Higgs boson has mass because it's an intrinsic property of the Higgs boson", which is tantamount to "they just do".

[-] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 2 points 1 year ago

Mass & gravity are still way easier to understand on a fundamental level, especially since everything has a certain amount of mass and thus affects and is affected by gravity. It's a much simpler concept. ("Natural") magnetism is (so far) very material specific and I don't think I've seen a good explanation as to why exactly. Magnets certainly behave very differently than other materials and that causes this mysticism in people when they think about magnets. Given the still ongoing research into magnetism and related things like superconductivity there's certainly a lot still to learn.

[-] jnoliv@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This reminded me of Richard Feynman talking about this very topic. Always enjoy rewatching it.

https://youtu.be/MO0r930Sn_8

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 1 points 1 year ago

The first time I saw this and he got to the part about your hand not going through the chair, and how magnets just do the same thing at a distance, it was like seeing the Matrix briefly. Definite "oh shit" moment. Also gave me a flashback of Sagan telling me that matter was basically comprised of nothing. By accident Lucas was right - the Force is all around us, binding us. It's all forces.

[-] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

I love watching Feynman prove icp right.

[-] slackassassin@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

In addition to "they just do", the answer is also "we don't know." In that sense, icp was right.

[-] toynbee@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

When I was much younger, I asked my dad why things obeyed the laws of physics. That seems similar to your questions in the second paragraph.

Still haven't gotten a satisfactory answer.

[-] crapwittyname@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

The answer is because everything is lazy, and it's easier to obey the laws of physics than not to. The path of least resistance is real.
Why are the laws of physics the way they are and not different? I have a degree in physics and I still don't know the answer to that, annoyingly.

[-] toynbee@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

IIRC, this is pretty close to what he said, except his degree was in engineering. Thank you for the response.

[-] thebestaquaman@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

To that I would answer that things don't "obey the laws of physics" in any greater sense than that the "laws" of physics are principles that we've formulated based on how we've observed that nature behaves.

We have exactly zero proof that there is some inherent property of nature that always and forever will prevent heat from moving from cold to hot, even though that would violate the second law of thermodynamics. It's just that we have never observed a process that violates the second law (people have tried very hard to break this one), and have a decent explanation for why we're not able to break it.

If some process is developed or observed that violates the "laws of physics", that just means we need to figure out where the "laws" are wrong, and revise them, which is how science moves forwards!

So short answer: Things obey the laws of physics, because whenever we observe something that breaks the laws, we revise the laws to allow for the newly observed behaviour.

This is what makes science fundamentally different from most belief systems: The only core principle is that anything can at any time be disproven, and everything we think we know is potentially wrong. By truly internalising that core belief, there's no amount of proof that can turn your worldview upside down, because your core principle is that everything you think you know is potentially wrong, only being a more or less good approximation to the true underlying nature of the universe, which we can never really know anything about.

[-] toynbee@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I saw your comment much earlier but was in the middle of my workday and I didn't have time to review it until now, so I apologize for the delay.

Your answer is interesting, insightful and educational, for all of which I am grateful. I hadn't considered that perspective and it is all of the adjectives I listed previously.

However, I don't think it answers at least what I meant by the original question, even if it does answer the literal question I asked. That's on me for not using sufficiently specific language. What I meant wasn't "why do things obey the laws of physics as we understand them" or "why do things obey the laws of physics as we've defined them" but more "whatever the laws of physics truly are as defined by the universe, what makes the content of the universe obey them?" I was quite young when I asked my dad the question, so at the time I pictured little Marvin the Martian style physics policemen following atoms around enforcing the law, but I suspect that's not correct.

My question is possibly more philosophical than scientific (or realistically answerable). At that age I was certainly not aware of the simulation hypothesis, which seems like a good starting point, but also raises more questions. Regardless, I appreciate the clearly genuine effort behind your answer as well as the pontification it inspired, at least for me.

An aside: your comment reminded me of the "Maxwell's Demon" Abstruse Goose comic (which sadly I can't find to link here) and this Simpsons bit, which clearly I was able to find to link.

https://youtu.be/tuxbMfKO9Pg

I want to reiterate one last time that people who try to answer questions and educate others are extremely valuable and I meant nothing negative about your comment. Thank you for responding.

[-] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago
[-] NateNate60@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

It's funny because the actual physics explanation is "they just do".

[-] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 7 points 1 year ago

It's the craziest part of quantum physics. "Why is this stuff having the observed behavior?"

Based on all evidence and theory, the answer is that it quite literally just does.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Water, fire, air and dirt

Fucking magnets, how do they work?

And I don't wanna talk to a scientist

Y'all motherfuckers lying, and getting me pissed.

[-] GrammarPolice@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

I'm too stupid to understand what that article is talking about. Can someone translate to layman's terms?

[-] Securus777@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

I could be wrong but as I understand it. You know magnetism based on positive and negative poles, now they can read and write SPIN, which is another property of electrons (that are in everything, even things nonmagnetic). If it's true, and scales, we could use non-ferrous better materials to achieve what we do currently with ferrous materials.

[-] drunkosaurus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 year ago

Sooo we can magnetize nonmagnetic materials?

Tractor beam when?

[-] Securus777@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Sadly still magnetic force that loses strength exponentially based on distance

[-] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

To quote Tim The Toolman Taylor, "Moar Power!"

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Is it animal magnetism?

[-] FunnyUsername@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Can i make a ufo out of this?

[-] massive_bereavement@fedia.io 7 points 1 year ago

Worth a read, I feel like I read some hard sci-fi.

this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024
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