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submitted 7 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) by Grapho@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

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Sources: https://news.gallup.com/poll/653495/half-ukrainians-quick-negotiated-end-war.aspx https://news.antiwar.com/2024/11/19/poll-majority-of-ukrainians-want-peace-talks-to-end-war-with-russia/

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[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 41 points 7 hours ago

God the Russian propaganda on .ml is intense

[-] PaX@hexbear.net 3 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

1915 Lemmy lib: "God the German propaganda on .ml is intense"

The propaganda: Peace pls yes-honey-left

Any info I encounter contrary to the interests of my preferred empire must be the work of the dastardly Foreigner. If the other side wanted peace they should simply unconditionally surrender imaginator (skull can barely contain brain of this size)

And if they won't, ~~we~~ Ukrainians must be willing to give up their lives in a total war until victory (which is going well and good and can be expected to end in that outcome)

Russia's terms have been quite clear since the beginning of the war: a neutral, non-West-aligned Ukraine and the official ceding of Crimea and the breakaway republics. Even regardless of how you feel about those issues, how does it benefit you or the average Ukrainian to keep fighting over this? It is such a pointless, devastating loss of life over shit that obviously represents larger geopolitical issues for the West and Russia while Ukraine is turned into a literal wasteland (omg and the Ukrainian side has been financed by massive Western loans doomer , even if Ukraine "wins" they are gonna be fucked when the creditors come for their repayments after the war which is intentional ofc, will probably result in even more IMF austerity plans and poverty)

Idk, maybe the Ukrainian side could get better terms (they def could have earlier) but they have just refused to actually negotiate (beyond telling the world how "open" they to are it lol) and have taken your total victory position. Ofc there is so much more to say but yeh

[+] Grapho@lemmy.ml -13 points 7 hours ago

Citing gallup sources is Russian propaganda? Lmao are US schools just propaganda conditioning centers or what

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 27 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Hey Russia is more than welcome to go back home any day and they there will be peace.

Like blaming a strike on the workers. "Stupid workers picketing for better wages!". Distraction tactic. Management can pay a fair wage and it will be over tonight.

Russia can go home and there would be peace tomorrow

[-] SweetLava@hexbear.net 4 points 1 hour ago

Russia can go wherever they want and the problem won't be resolved. It's not about what countries are involved in Ukraine, it's about why countries feel the need to go there in the first place. Ukraine, like Haiti, Syria, and Sudan - to name a few more - is a site of inter-capitalist rivalry

You can get peace - sure - but the Ukrainian economy will be subjugated to whoever the 'victor' is. You can argue that economic integration reduces conflict and wars, but what will remain is a sort of neo-colonial relationship; or a dependency of sorts. That's what I have an issue with.

But that is the only realistic outcome - that exact economic dependency on one power or another (whether that be the US, the EU, or even Russia, or even a mixture, say, for instance, the EU+US or EU+Russia)

There are no liberationary movements in Ukraine to my knowledge, just a reactionary military regime where political rights have been greatly reduced, even by liberal standards for governance. It is exceptionally rare that a country caught between two capitalist rivals gets the ability to form their own sovereign and independent liberation

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 5 points 3 hours ago

Russia can go home and there would be peace tomorrow

That's about as likely to happen as Israel fucking off from Palestine. So where does that leave us?

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 hours ago

Shooting Russians I guess.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 0 points 2 hours ago

No idea, I'll leave that to others, but I'll say that this meme is about as laughable as Israel saying Palestine is causing all the violence. I'll concede that Palestine started this specific thing, but no where nearly the magnitude that Israel retaliated with. (And even that's debatable). I'm just sick of these places trying to swap the narrative. No, if you want peace, you can achieve that today! Just... Stop the aggression and done! It's over!

[-] SexMachineStalin@hexbear.net 1 points 13 minutes ago

Palestine started this specific thing

gulag

[-] Ram_The_Manparts@hexbear.net 1 points 1 hour ago

Palestine started this specific thing, but no where nearly the magnitude that Israel retaliated with. (And even that's debatable).

What specifically are you referring to with the "debatable" part at the end there?

[+] Grapho@lemmy.ml -17 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

No it wouldn't, delusional as usual from libs. Ukraine was bombing Donbas from 2015, killing upwards of 14k people.

This was after the Minsk II accords where they negotiated, which is very reminiscent of the Israeli tactics in Lebanon of announcing a ceasefire and insisting only your opponent abide by it. It's reminiscent because that's the standard US client tactic, which they implement with complicity from the media knowing libs treat contradictory evidence as propaganda.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 18 points 6 hours ago

You know a great way they could stop that from happening? Exiting the country they invaded.

[+] Grapho@lemmy.ml -15 points 6 hours ago

Did your script get jammed? They were bombing Donbas in violation of the peace deal for years after Russians had already exited the country.

If the US insists on its clients violating brokered agreements, they shouldn't be surprised when others don't trust their word.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 10 points 6 hours ago

Got it. So for that instance, a great way to have peace would for be for them not to do that.

A great way to have peace right now would be for Russia to leave. Like a great way for there to have peace would be for everyone to just.... Have peace. Easy peasy.

[+] Grapho@lemmy.ml -8 points 6 hours ago

Christ, I can get more intelligent conversation from a 7 year old anywhere in the world than a western adult I stg. It's like talking to Matt Miller.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 4 points 6 hours ago

Correct! The way to get peace really is so simple that a 7 year old could have thought of it!

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 0 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Y'all can't even fucking read lmao not even pretending you found a gotcha, just doing madlibs with a word or two you found in the comment.

No wonder it's so easy to propagandize you.

[-] greenacres3233@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 hours ago

If everyone around you disagrees with you, maybe it's time to be open to the posibility that you are wrong?

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 hours ago

Your boos mean nothing; I've seen what makes you cheer

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Nah, I base my opinion around the evidence. If the consensus of the US and Western Europe was what drove my opinion, I'd have been in favor of killing Gaddafi, invading Iraq, torturing Asians in Vietnam, bombing Iran, and all other sorts of monstrous shit.

I'll wait for y'all to pretend you were always on the fence or against but simultaneously there was no way of knowing, since only the tankies were saying it and we know we can't trust those.

[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml -2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

If everyone around you disagrees with you, maybe it’s time to be open to the posibility that you are wrong?

give it time and you'll see how reality makes us all aware

everyone else has work to do to put food on the table; we can't respond as quickly.

[-] greenacres3233@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 hours ago

I think the Twitter bots would happily agree with you, but you don't have much support to collect from here.

[-] greenacres3233@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 6 hours ago

One look into your comment history tells me everything I need to know about your opinions.

[+] Grapho@lemmy.ml -10 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Libs doing cartwheels to not engage with the evidence lmao. Are Ukrainians not wanting peace deals? If so, they should get them then. Fuck if a gringo thinks they oughta die because they think Ukrainians should keep fighting.

[-] greenacres3233@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 hours ago

[removed by mod]

[-] Flaps@hexbear.net 6 points 5 hours ago

From the article

In Gallup’s latest surveys of Ukraine, conducted in August and October 2024, an average of 52% of Ukrainians would like to see their country negotiate an end to the war as soon as possible. Nearly four in 10 Ukrainians (38%) believe their country should keep fighting until victory.

Woops, guess your very small minority actually is the majority

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 hours ago

I don’t give a fuck about libs or any of the political parties in the States.

Libs == liberals == https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property and equality before the law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property

Private property is foundational to capitalism, an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. As a legal concept, private property is defined and enforced by a country's political system.

In other words, liberals are capitalism stans.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml -2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

You're still doing the propaganda work of the gringos.

The point is, Ukrainians want it, Ukrainians should get it. You think the war should continue? That's fine, get your country to wage it so you can go and fight it.

[-] lugal@sopuli.xyz 14 points 6 hours ago

So a minority of 27% is desperate enough to offer territorial concessions but I doubt even they are willing to give as much as Putin demands

[-] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 8 points 6 hours ago

Western stooge of Russia demands Ukraine surrender the lands taken by invasion.

[-] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 15 points 7 hours ago

No bias at all.

[-] CarlMarks@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 7 hours ago

What is the bias?

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 hours ago

If it contradicts the State Department line, it's biased. If it's based on evidence, reality is biased.

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[+] Grapho@lemmy.ml -8 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Bruh are we at the point when saying "I agree with Ukrainian civilians in wishing the bloodshed would stop via diplomacy" gets gringos frothing at the mouth? What the fuck is wrong with y'all

[-] Ummdustry@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 hours ago

it's that zelensky is being posed in the meme as the main obstacle to peace, rather than the invading russian army.

[-] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 0 points 6 hours ago

I'm starting to think those people are just sadists wishing to see as many Ukrainians and Russians dead as possible...

They don't even refute anything, if you say anything remotely critical of Ukraine/Zelensky, you are just declared Russian bot/propagandist and your opinion doesn't matter. Wow.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml -5 points 6 hours ago

Fr. It's taken as a given that they don't give a fuck about the opinion of Ukrainians. Shit, if you're so against Putin, why not have your country go to war so you can put on the boots? Why do others have to die for what you believe in?

[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 hours ago

... Why do others have to die for what you believe in?

liberals are armchair generals with enough time to respond quickly to the bits of reality they don't like.

leftists have other shit to do to keep a roof over their heads so their response is always slower. i joined this instance because the community here delivers; albeit a day after liberals stop paying attention and moved onto the next thing.

[-] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 2 points 6 hours ago

Why do others have to die for what you believe in?

Why not?
I mean the only answer here is "because empathy", but Ukrainians are not part of their " tribe", so no empathy for us.. Murder as many of us as they can, and then write in the history books that it was Russia so that they can continue claiming they are the good ones :(

this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2024

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