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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by Serinus@lemmy.world to c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world

There will be a new announcement soon to clarify.

~~Communities should not be overly moderated in order to enforce a specific narrative. Respectful disagreement should be allowed in a smaller proportion to the established narrative.~~

~~Humans are naturally inclined to believe a single narrative when they're only presented with a single narrative. That's the basis of how fiction works. You can't tell someone a story if they're questioning every paragraph. However, a well placed sentence questioning that narrative gives the reader the option to chose. They're no longer in a story being told by one author, and they're free to choose the narrative that makes sense to them, even if one narrative is being pushed much more heavily than the other.~~

~~Unfortunately, some malicious actors are hijacking this natural tendency to be invested in fiction, and they're using it to create absurd, cult-like trends in non-fiction. They're using this for various nefarious ends, to turn us against each other, to generate profit, and to affect politics both domestically and internationally.~~

~~In a fully anonymous social media platform, we can't counter this fully. But we can prune some of the most egregious echo chambers.~~

~~We're aware that this policy is going to be subjective. It won't be popular in all instances. We're going to allow some "flat earth" comments. We're going to force some moderators to accept some "flat earth" comments. The point of this is that you should be able to counter those comments with words, and not need moderation/admin tools to do so. One sentence that doesn't jive with the overall narrative should be easily countered or ignored~~.

~~It's harder to just dismiss that comment if it's interrupting your fictional story that's pretending to be real. "The moon is upside down in Australia" does a whole lot more damage to the flat earth argument than "Nobody has crossed the ice wall" does to the truth. The purpose of allowing both of these is to help everyone get a little closer to reality and avoid incubating extreme cult-like behavior online.~~

~~A user should be able to (respectfully, infrequently) post/comment about a study showing marijuana is a gateway drug to !marijuana without moderation tools being used to censor that content.~~

~~Of course this isn't about marijuana. There's a small handful of self-selected moderators who are very transparently looking to push their particular narrative. And they don't want to allow discussion. They want to function as propaganda and an incubator. Our goal is to allow a few pinholes of light into the Truman show they wish to create. When those users' pinholes are systematically shut down, we as admins can directly fix the issue.~~

~~We don't expect this policy to be perfect. Admins are not aware of everything that happens on our instances and don't expect to be. This is a tool that allows us to trim the most extreme of our communities and guide them to something more reasonable. This policy is the board that we point to when we see something obscene on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com so that we can actually do something about it without being too authoritarian ourselves. We want to enable our users to counter the absolute BS, and be able to step in when self-selected moderators silence those reasonable people.~~

~~Some communities will receive an immediate notice with a link to this new policy. The most egregious communities will comply, or their moderators will be removed from those communities.~~

~~Moderators, if someone is responding to many root comments in every thread, that's not "in a smaller proportion" and you're free to do what you like about that. If their "counter" narrative posts are making up half of the posts to your community, you're free to address that. If they're belligerent or rude, of course you know what to do. If they're just saying something you don't like, respectfully, and they're not spamming it, use your words instead of your moderation abilities.~~

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[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 months ago

I respectfully disagree with this policy change as debate communities have their place in allowing discourse on topics.

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[-] Squorlple@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

A zero tolerance policy against zero tolerance policies against intolerance and mis/dis/malinformation? The explanation was a bit figurative language heavy.

[-] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 months ago

yeah I don't really follow. Would be better if they gave a direct example of it.

I assume !usauthoritarianism@lemmy.world banning people who disagree with the mod, and that vegan one banning actual vegans for being "fake" are what's being talked about, but I'm not sure.

Some clarification would be nice.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago

A restaurant that serves animal products is flexitarian not vegan. Definitions should not be watered down. Anyone who advocates for the use of animal products contradicts the definition of veganism:

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 1 points 4 months ago

Lamenting the fact that a formerly-vegan-only restaurant adding a small number of meat products in a desperate attempt to stay open, and failing, is not something that should get one banned from vegan spaces. Nor is suggesting that, in your opinion, it would be a good thing for all restaurants to have a couple of vegan options on the menu. You don't need to argue about or change the definition of veganism to see that. rbn and gaael did not deserve to be treated in the abusive way the mods of that community treated them.

[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago

That attempt did not work. It’s like saying slaves should work in a business to save it.

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 1 points 4 months ago

I don't have a personal opinion one way or the other as to the right answer here.

The only thing I do know is that the mods of that community were being fucking pricks by shutting down extremely respectful conversation among their own community. That's indisputable.

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[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 0 points 4 months ago

So c/world will start allowing all sources of news?

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

I would be happy enough if its moderator stopped instigating and escalating conflict with individual community members.

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[-] FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 0 points 4 months ago

You fucking idiots.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

This policy to me seems as an attempt to sensibly resolve the power trip problem, but it appears a bit vague and there is still room for improvement. There are some communities where this makes sense but I think there are others where it does not. Moderators are volunteers and I think they should have a degree of discretion how they run the community. You're the admin so do as you will, but may I suggest:

Where a one sided narrative is strictly being enforced that world admins don't appreciate, would it be better to just move/rename that community to better reflect it? Such as moving the example community mod to a new community called "marijuana is bad", to better reflect the variety of views the moderator is looking for? I know a pervasive issue is a single poster/moderator just posts and enforces a one-sided view, but perhaps the root of that issue is that the community's name misleadingly looks to be a neutral place when it is not being run that way.

I say this because there are places that are not intended for neutral discussion and are meant to be more supportive of one group.

LGBTQ+ safe spaces are a prime example, but a different example about more trivial matters would be, say, Premier League football clubs.

If someone makes a Chelsea fan community, someone else coming in to say why Liverpool is better can be removed, as it should be more of a Chelsea echo chamber. Whereas in a Premier League community, blocking Liverpool posts and only allow Chelsea supportive posts would make sense to get admins involved to have it be more open and neutral.

Personally I think it would be better to enforce a policy of ensuring a community's moderation matches the intent implied by the name of it. The policy as it stands feels heavy-handed on moderators.

[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 1 points 4 months ago

I very much agree with this. Having single-viewpoint communities isn't the problem. Sometimes that's what people are looking for. It's when that isn't clear and/or the community is parked on a name that shouldn't be single-viewpoint that there's a problem.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk -1 points 4 months ago

My take is we Admins are just running the community for the users of it and Mods are caretakers of their communities. The idea that communities are a Mods personal fiefdom seems to be a holdover from Reddit and just seems like it can/will lead to power-tripping.

[-] poVoq@slrpnk.net 0 points 4 months ago

It is generally a good idea to have multiple mods and it should be encouraged for mods to have a back-channel to coordinate (we for example offer a XMPP based chat system for members of our instance) so that less moderation decisions are self-involved and made in the heat of the moment. But ultimately the idea that the mods are the ones that are in control of a community is the least bad of the various alternatives, and certainly admin overreach is more problematic than mod overreach, as people can easily switch to another community if they don't like the mods' decisions in one community.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 1 points 4 months ago

as people can easily switch to another community if they don’t like the mods’ decisions in one community.

I know it's true in theory, but in practice if the mod is really power tripping (so banning everyone mentioning the alternative), it's quite hard to achieve. It took me months to get people to the alternative community, and even now people still post there from time to time.

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[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world -1 points 4 months ago
[-] superkret@feddit.org 1 points 4 months ago

I think Reddit is dysfunctional because people are dysfunctional. My hope is to be able to address that by improving people's health & function via the gut microbiome.

wat

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this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2025
-13 points (19.0% liked)

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