The guardian on Joe Rogan's popularity in Aus, and some peoples' reasons for listening. (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 6 days ago by NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org to c/australia@aussie.zone

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I thought this article was interesting, in that I am immediately suspicious of the motives of some of people quoted. The conclusion runs counter to what I want to be true, and I'm curious what other people make of it.

Also men: Do you actually feel attacked? I'm not sure I've ever seen someone criticised for like being strong and capable, or a good carpenter, or a protective dad or whatever. Is this a real thing? or just something that is used as cover like the traditional values vs violent misogyny terminology.

P.S. Thinking there are hordes of ravenous cancellers waiting in the wings is extremely funny to me. Not exactly beating the allegations that listening to Jo Rogan damages your perception of reality.

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[-] Deceptichum@quokk.au 41 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

“I’ve literally seen this happen, it’s like: ‘oh don’t talk to him, he likes Joe Rogan, he’s probably one of these weird alt-right guys’.”

[…]

For Alexander, Rogan’s rise ran counter to the identity politics spilling out university campuses, a yin to yang of a “woke mind virus” that he felt was targeting people like him.

Gee Alexander, you’re not doing a good job of showing you’re not one of those weird alt-right guys.

These fucking little cowards like to hide behind victimhood as if they’re not just shit people deserving of it.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 7 points 6 days ago

Yeah... he seemed like a kind of person I've known but it's a few snippets from an interview. Maybe there's a more charitable way to read it, more of a joke.

[-] Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 30 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I listened to a few of his interviews some years back and only really came away with the conclusion that he's a dumbfuck who'll get most of his opinions from the last person he talked to.

[-] spiffmeister@aussie.zone 4 points 5 days ago

Don't forget the money he's given.

[-] Spuddlesv2@lemmy.ca 18 points 6 days ago

Edgelords with inflated opinions of their intelligence, and morons.

Those two are not mutually exclusive.

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago

The most baffling thing about it is that Joe Rogan was a comedian for most of his professional life yet his show is not funny at all. The one thing I can say in his favour is that he gives his guests unlimited time and space to talk. So many interviewers talk over their guests and try to be the centre of attention I just hate it. But Rogan’s guests don’t interest me with all the kooky stuff they promote, and Rogan himself eats it all up.

[-] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 7 points 5 days ago

Who’s this Jo Rogan sheila?

[-] Minarble@aussie.zone 7 points 5 days ago

Some yank wanker

[-] shirro@aussie.zone 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I suspect he is the Taylor Swift or Mr Beast of talk shows. If you have no experience with music then Taylor is very accessible and easy to discover. Mr Beast will be on the front page when you visit Youtube if you don't have an established watch history. I am sure Rogan tops the podcast apps. The platforms promote him because he has an audience and he is always being discussed.

It is the lowest common denominator stuff. You can likely discuss Rogan along with the cricket or free to air reality tv with regular people and be on common ground.

Rogan's ignorance is comical and a bit concerning how many people hang on his words but he fills a niche that people seem to desire. When they claim to be upset about all the haters they are behaving more or less like Swifties. They absolutely love hanging out with other Swifties and can't understand why we don't all agree with them. That isn't being a victim. That is petulance.

[-] befed@aussie.zone 5 points 6 days ago

I've listened to Joe Rogan before because his Daryl Davis interview was interesting as fuck. I can't think of anything else he's put out that I care about, though. I also can't Imagine being insecure about listening to a podcast.

[-] Eyekaytee@aussie.zone 5 points 6 days ago

Do you actually feel attacked? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen someone criticised for like being strong and capable

I don't get it, where is the link between being attacked and being strong and capable?

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 6 days ago

“middle path of masculinity”, between the “emasculated” and “browbeaten” male of the far left and the Tate-like women haters and “pickup artists” of the far right.

“We want to foster the good side [of masculinity],” he says. “Which is being on the mission, wanting to be strong, being something of a warrior, but also being the good man, the loving husband, the loving partner, the good father”

“There is a vitriol against that idea[...]"

If you ask most people who allegedly want to brow beat men what "good masculinity" is you would probably get stuff like:

strong and helpful
patient
skilled
protects people
Loving and attentive
Takes care of body and mind
Good in a crisis

This guy is claiming men are attacked for wanting to be strong, loving, a good father, and 'something of a warrior'

Idk what the last means but I basically only see men attacked for

treating women as less then men
using violence to solve problems that could be talked out
using violence on the vulnerable

Which uh, notably aren't in his list of reason men are attacked. So I want to ask what men's opinions are.

[-] vividspecter@lemm.ee 5 points 5 days ago

"browbeaten” male of the far left

This line really stood out to me. Have they met anyone on the left in their lives?

It's like they have some imaginary idea of what a left-winger looks and acts like in their minds.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 days ago

The left doesn't want you to know this but 100% of leftist women are dommes

[-] DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone 5 points 5 days ago

I think many are quick to colour all men with the same brush when any man does something bad (murder, domestic violence, etc). This ignores the fact that most men aren't doing this and are helpless to stop it. It's not like we're choosing to let domestic violence to continue. We're just as powerless as anyone else.

And there's a real focus on the worst of men's behaviour, without any appreciation of the good things men do, to balance it out.

All men are flawed, just like all women are flawed (except my Mrs). We're all a mix of good and bad, trying to do our best.

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[-] galoisghost@aussie.zone 7 points 6 days ago

My opinion is that men who think men are being attacked for their masculinity are misogynists who think that because they speak nicely to their wife/mother/daughter they are nice guys and all the toxic stuff the tolerate and/or do is just boys being boys.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

The impression that I'm getting is that some people are angry at not being praised, having people say mean things sometimes, or at the possibility of being passed over because of what rather than who they are.

Which I get it, that shit sucks. But like women are dealing with that too. Idk if men experience like getting catcalled and being like "shit, am I in danger now?". Do guys feel like you need another man to walk with you home from a train station at night?

It just seems a bit to me like there's not much empathy here from the blokes complaining. Yes we should all be kinder to each other, and being looked over is awful. On the latter women are looked over all the time and surely broadly making opportunity 50:50 is a fair goal (realistically because women live slightly longer a true unbiased society would see a very slight majority women in major positions). Like look at Parliament and tell me women aren't held back from power.

And with mean stuff being said like yes that is rude but again women also deal with that and worse. It doesn't seem like a reason to hold a grudge, it seems like a reason to band together to equalise everything so the fear and suspicion can stop.

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 2 points 5 days ago

I think there is also a legitimate response here to the general acceptance of "all men should just die" rhetoric that was popular for a while there (and still is in some circles).

When I was young I told a girlfriend that I wanted to get into politics to help people. She responded, "but you are a white man, you can't help anyone" or something of the like. Really sticks with you.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago

“but you are a white man, you can’t help anyone” or something of the like. Really sticks with you.

That's a silly thing to say but it also sounds like it came from the mouth of a teenager? Teenagers say lots of dumb stuff I wouldn't recommend forming societal views based on them.

Most women have had the experience of being humiliated sexually, and belittled intellectually by young men. Do you feel that women should feel like we're under attack?

[-] Didros@beehaw.org 1 points 5 days ago

I can't say you should feel anything, simply that I've felt as though society doesn't want my help due to my gender. Therefore, could extrapolate that into a reason other men might feel that way.

I don't understand people generally, but I do my best to give people the benefit of the doubt.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago

I'm not trying to have a go, I'm trying to understand. I agree that feeling shut out and having people say awful stuff because of your gender is bad. Surely you see that women deal with this too right though? and extremely extensively.

If you look at the upper echelons of society women are not there, if you look at the trades women aren't respected, in corporate life women routinely feel like they have to get a man to say their ideas to be taken seriously. When I worked tech support I signed my emails with a man's name because otherwise customers argued with me (this wasn't me being ridiculous, my boss asked me to start doing it because he got annoyed reading the tickets going overtime).

So it's like, surely having experienced some of it you get that all of it is bad right? You wouldn't arrive at men being under attack, but rather gender equality being important so nobody feels this way.

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[-] goodthanks@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

When I see people trying to define positive masculinity, they list traits that are actually good traits I look for in female partners, or male friends. This leads me to believe that the complaints about emasculation are confused ones. I know my mostly absent father complained to my mum about emasculation once. Well, step up and be strong and responsible like most single mothers have to do. Too many guys expect to be respected just for being male. Prove it. Be a good person, male or female.

[-] naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 6 days ago

This is what confuses me. I am mostly a lesbian but have dated men a few times. I never resented their traits I would consider manly.

My sisters are married to men and they seem to enjoy the fact that they're men. They expect their partner to be sensitive, tactful, and mature but that is a basic expectation of every adult and not hard to meet.

My dad is a man, he's extremely handy and always willing to show us the ropes of some task or help out with his knowledge. That seems like masculinity to me.

I don't understand what men feel like they're not allowed to do that is "being a man". I get some stuff like roided up beauty standards are ridiculous but every human alive deals with impossible celebrity beauty.

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

There's a ton of casual misandry in American media and some are more sensitive to it than others.

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[-] dumblederp@aussie.zone 3 points 6 days ago

I was a fan up until around episode 800ish. The comedy/fitness guests were fun and informative. I eventually found the guests more and more wack so I gave up on the show.

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

There's a lot if casual misandry in the media. There is a rejection of the traditional male head of the household gender role but there isn't a clearly defined replacement that we agree to so right now a lot if younger men have no real masculine ideal to aspire to and guys like Rogan fill that hole as he's supposedly tough, funny, responsible and a solid bread winner for his family (regardless of whether that is accurate IDK). He gives guys a model to aspire to even if it is controversial.

What I wonder is how we shift away from the caveman ideal that Rogan represents to someone more in the vein of Bob Ross or Fred Rodgers (Mr Rodgers Neighborhood). We would all be better if guys wanted to be Fred Rodgers

[-] Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 days ago

There's a lot if [sic] casual misandry in the media.

Yeah righto little fella

[-] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 5 points 5 days ago

Go watch some sitcoms and try to find a father who is competent. It’s fairly rare. We have a lot of narratives that portray men as less rational/capable parents.

Like I said it’s casual. It’s not on the same level as the misogyny in society but it is there.

[-] Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 5 days ago

That's actually a really interesting example. Like yeah, you're kinda right that that sorta portrayal can foster low-level misandrist attitudes, but I'd say that in a society that systemically devalues that sort of work, portraying men as being generally incompetent at child-rearing and household tasks is mostly to their own benefit, because that stereotype implies that unpaid domestic labour is better just left to women. It's like weaponised incompetence at scale.

[-] goodthanks@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

I feel like Tim Heidecker's parody of rogan says more than this article did https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Iyg9fznvM

[-] No1@aussie.zone 4 points 5 days ago

Linking to an 11 hour video is a bold move

[-] spiffmeister@aussie.zone 2 points 4 days ago

Spoiler

It loops seamlessly every 90 or so minutes

[-] DavidDoesLemmy@aussie.zone 3 points 6 days ago

I hate Joe Rogan, but occasionally he has interesting guests on, and I'm forced to tolerate him for a bit.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 3 points 6 days ago

I am curious if you have any episodes you would recommend? I have seen the worst. I wonder what the good ones are and would be interested to better understand the appeal.

I tend to go for very dry and academic podcasts. We're not so different, maintenance phase, when diplomacy fails, Australia in the world, tech wont save us etc.

[-] spidervl@aussie.zone 8 points 6 days ago

I'm not the person you asked, but his 2019 Bernie Sanders interview was really good.

[-] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 2 points 6 days ago

Thank you

[-] JackFrostNCola@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Not what you asked for but I assume you already listen to Stuff You Should Know? Thats a super easy listening general science & culture podcast for background listening while working or traffic.