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The Switch 2 Rollout Was So Convoluted It Made Us Want A Steam Deck. (aftermath.site)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by Gem@lemmynsfw.com to c/games@lemmy.world

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[-] k1ck455kc@sh.itjust.works 70 points 2 weeks ago

The only thing "convoluted" about this whole announcement was pricing. The price of the console The price of the games The price of their online services and upgrades...

All of that is gut-wrenching as Nintendo claws at its dedicated fans wallets.

Otherwise the features and games look amazing, i understand why people are willing to pay those prices.

Fingers crossed we luck out with easy jailbreaks and emulators like we did for the Switch 1.

[-] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 24 points 2 weeks ago

Fingers crossed we luck out with easy jailbreaks and emulators like we did for the Switch 1.

Nintendo won't make this mistake again. But I'm like you, also hoping their security experts are the same dipshits as before so we can resume pirating the entire overpriced Nintendo library.

[-] miseducator@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago

Nintendo continuously makes the easiest to hack and emulate consoles and handhelds. They been fighting emulation for 30 years and still churn out systems that get cracked immediately.

[-] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 12 points 2 weeks ago

Hell my kids play N64 on my modded Wii. They were playing Mario kart just a few hours ago lmao

[-] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago

youd be suprised. all of Sonys consoles are hackable, despite efforts to stopping it. willing to guess that another SD express exploit will be found, as one was already found late last year, and the switch 2 is one of the devices that uses it.

[-] gamer@lemm.ee 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Nintendo won’t make this mistake again

17th time's the charm

[-] Ashtear@lemm.ee 11 points 2 weeks ago

Pure speculation here, but I'm pretty sure the reason Nintendo significantly ramped up their legal hiring in the past few years is because they figured it was cheaper to chill the development of custom firmware and emulation than it was to tighten up their hardware.

I'm sure they still made an effort, but I'd be very surprised if the security isn't broken fairly quickly.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

They've had dumb vulnerabilities in every single console. Given this one is a refresh, it probably won't have some huge unpatchable vuln, but there's always something.

[-] thebigslime@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The first model run of Switches had an SOC hardware flaw that was Nvidia's fault.

[-] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

Nintendo makes this mistake like every single time, what do you mean

[-] LiveLM@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

jailbreaks and emulators

I'm afraid of the possibility the Switch 2 will be their Xbox 360 -> Xbox One moment in terms of security...

[-] NutinButNet@hilariouschaos.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

They made a change that the cartridges no longer hold the game data but will require a download of the game and the cartridge is just a key for the digital game.

That will stop game dumping from the cartridge. But with a jailbroken console, we can still get the game that way.

[-] MichaelScotch@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

That’s not true. The physical games do contain the game. Game-key cards do not. There is a difference

[-] NutinButNet@hilariouschaos.com 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Wait so there will be two different types of cartridges? Some that do hold game data and others that don’t and are just the digital key?

I was under the impression this would be all cartridges for the Switch 2.

[-] MichaelScotch@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Yes. In the direct they specifically said that physical game cartridges will be the same shape and size as switch 1 cartridges, but will be red and are much faster. Then in their customer support documentation on their website it says that game key cards are different from regular game cards and will be clearly labeled as “game-key card” on the packaging. However, this doesn’t mean that they will always produce working physical games. This game-key card thing may just be a way to slowly transition into an all digital market without causing a sudden uproar

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[-] icecreamtaco@lemmy.world 47 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

But $450 does feels like the upper limit cost of something you give a child, and if you're charging me Real Console money for this then I kinda expect to be treated like an adult.

It is a Real Console. Today's big showpiece was fucking Bloodborne 2 and some people still can't get out of their bubble where they think it's a children's toy.

[-] thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works 31 points 2 weeks ago

Nintendo launched the first Switch at $299; just accounting for inflation over the past years - that’s ~$390 now, BEFORE even trying to account for any Trump-tariffs they have been (or will be) imposed on electronics hardware.

I hate to give Nintendo credit, but $450 is actually somewhat reasonable given the current global shit-show.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 14 points 2 weeks ago

Almost like they base prices on actual financial accounting and not the feelings of gamers.

Of course any economist will tell you economics is part psychology and sociology because humans aren't rational actors, but it evens out at these large scales, and they have to start somewhere.

[-] alehel@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah, this was my thinking as well. Inflation + preparations for tariffs are likely enough to bring the price to 450.

[-] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 41 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It's not convoluted at all. It's extremely simple: if you want to (edit: legally) play first party Nintendo titles (or other exclusives), you MUST buy a switch. If you don't care about Nintendo exclusives, there's absolutely no reason to own a switch. That has been true of every, single Nintendo console ever released... except for the Wii. People bought a Wii so they could play a motion control game with Grandma once or twice, and then just let the console sit and collect dust.

[-] LifeCoffeeGaming@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

I see your not a high seas enjoyer

[-] lowleveldata@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

New game console arrived

Comment suggesting piracy as the first option

gets up-votes

so-called gaming community

[-] winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago

Nintendo striking down emulators illegally?

[-] lowleveldata@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

How does that have anything to do with you pirating developers' hard work?

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

That only matters if you would have paid for it otherwise.

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[-] kratoz29@lemm.ee 10 points 2 weeks ago

People bought a Wii so they could play a motion control game with Grandma once or twice

I'd give up everything just to do this...

[-] SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

Well. NES/SNES/N64/GameCube/DS/GBA all had bangers. The well started to dry up around the wii.

[-] Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

Yuzu would like to have a word

[-] Rabbit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 2 weeks ago

Best time to buy Nintendo hardware is after the announcement of a hardware exploit.

[-] natryamar@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

The second best time is before

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

The game pricing argument goes back and forth for me. Yes, on paper, you could say that inflation suggests games should go up in price, especially considering how many more developers are needed to put out high-fidelity games. BUT, on the other hand, the minimum wage has not raised significantly in all of that time. As a result, a significant number of gamers genuinely can't pay more for games than they could 20+ years ago. The reason these larger studios exist is because of gaming's expanded reach in that time; and many of these new target territories similarly can't pay for the equivalent of $80USD.

There's maybe only about 1-2 games I've ever even paid the $70 price tag for.

[-] 7arakun@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

I agree, sales are constant (at least on PC) so I almost never even paid the $60 price tag. They can keep cranking up the prices but more and more people may just wait for sales. I know Nintendo games don't go on sale very often but that makes the ecosystem even less attractive. $450 is in the range of a Steam deck.

Inflation or not, prices can only go up if the market will support them. If people are unable (or unwilling) to pay the higher prices, then prices basically can't go up.

[-] Aielman15@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I don't blame them. Nintendo fans buy anything at any price. I don't see it being different this time.

Mario Kart 8 never goes on sale and sold 70m copies; Pokémon Scarlet/Violet sold 30m despite looking and playing like dogshit; they sold Skyward Sword HD, the remaster of a 10-yo game, at full price and still placed a few millions.

Nintendo is basically like Apple at this point, the brand is enough to convince people to spend more than they would for the competition, regardless of quality. I personally know a lot of people who loudly groaned/complained at the price announcement, but will still buy it day one, just like they always had in all these years.

And people terminally online should stop pretending the Steam Deck is competition to the Switch 2. It couldn't even compete with the Switch 1, which was five years older, had worse performance, and had been easily emulated for years at that point.

[-] Kichae@lemmy.ca 8 points 2 weeks ago

You're not wrong, Nintendo fans will buy this. As a Nintendo fan, I will buy this - though, it's gone from a Day 1, no-brainer purchase to "when I can justify the expense" - but Nintendo fans make up a small fraction of people who bought a Switch 1.

See: Wii U, 3DS

The Wii and DS printed money, and they assumed most of those users would move on to the new hardware. They did not. They had to slash the 3DS price within months, and nothing saved the Wii U.

[-] Hyphlosion@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

Probably not going to happen, but I think it would be awesome if it’s like the 3DS where they realize the cost is too much, then they lower the price significantly and the early adopters who sacrificed their firstborns for it will have some sort of ambassador program.

[-] nuko147@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

The question is how many of the Switch 1 buyers are Nintendo fans. Many, like me, bought Switch entering for 1st time to the Nintendo, but i am not consider myself a loyal mindless fan. With kids and families is harder though.

I will just skip Switch 2 and just play only in my PC like i always had. If they release a good Steam Deck that it is worthy, i will consider it. If the market slaps them and they return to reality, i will consider Switch 2 for 2026.

[-] Hyphlosion@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

Apart from both being TV/Handheld hybrid consoles, I’m not understanding why people think Switch/2 and Steam Deck are in direct competition with each other. They aren’t. They’re in totally separate leagues.

[-] Aneb@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

Does the sales reflect if Mario Kart 8 was bundled with the console as a purchase? So are they paying the full price in the end? Obliviously the prices are totally outrageous which is why I think I only have 4 games on the Switch and half of them were included with the console.

[-] lowleveldata@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Those are not the same thing? How do I play the new Donkey Kong and Formsoft exclusive (!) on a Steam deck?

[-] gamer@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago

Emulation (although you may have to wait a bit)

[-] kratoz29@lemm.ee 4 points 2 weeks ago

Do you really think the Steam Deck will have the horsepower to emulate Switch 2? I'd love too, but even Switch 1 is not in perfect level yet (like PPSSPP perfect like).

[-] gamer@lemm.ee 2 points 2 weeks ago

Why not? Just because the Switch 2 can do 4k60 doesn't mean it's super powerful. Thd Switch 1 was obsolete when it launched, so a hardware upgrade over that could be literally anything. For reference, even the Raspberry Pi can do 4k60 nowadays.

Afaik, Switch 2 specs haven't been revealed (have they?) so we don't know yet what to expect, but considering it's a handheld it will likely have similar power constraints to the Deck, possibly even more to achieve longer battery life. (But tbf, the deck is relatively old by now and could itself benefit from an upgrade). As far as emulation, we at least know Nintendo considered it worth the effort to try to take down all Switch 1 emulators before even revealing fhe Switch 2, probably suggesting it's not going to be hard to emulate.

The trailer mentions that the Switch 2 can do 4k60 when docked only on some games. Just knowing Nintendo's cheap asses, I doubt you'll get that from any significant 3D title. It'll probably be limited mostly to 2D titles, simple 3D ones, or maybe some hyper-polished first party titles. I doubt you'll see that in the new Bloodborne, possibly not even 120 while in handheld either.

[-] randomname@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

The steam deck just barely emulates the switch, so I think switch 2 emulation is out of the question unless there is serious performance hacks. Ryujinx likely would have been able to emulate the switch 2 one or two years after launch just like what happened with dolphin and the Wii. but Nintendo illegally got them shut down

[-] gamer@lemm.ee 1 points 2 weeks ago

The steam deck just barely emulates the switch

Wdym? Last I tried it, Switch emulation on the Deck was nearly perfect. I played the entirety of Metroid Dread on it with zero issues, and a couple of other games (Breath of the Wild, Smash, and Odyssey)

[-] randomname@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

I am pretty sensitive to stutter and 1% lows, so maybe I'm just being nit picky. what fixed it for me was downloading a complete shader cache for the games I had stutter problems with.

[-] skozzii@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago

The console price, the game price and no oled screen as well as it being so damn big make it a hard pass for me.

Il wait for the Switch 2 Lite OLED.

[-] kratoz29@lemm.ee 6 points 2 weeks ago

I mean... I will be able to get a Nintendo Switch 2 eventually... Regarding the Steam Deck, I can't buy it officially in Mexico yet... Come on Valve, we are literally neighbors of the USA lol.

[-] randomname@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

Honestly I don't see myself getting a switch 2 until its able to be emulated. and I'm buying it and all the games used so I don't have to support Nintendo financially

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