Are you aware of the history of the state of Israel beyond what affirms a bias? The modern state of Israel was formed after Jews around the world started purchasing land in modern day Israel. 28% of Israel was purchased this way, and that's most of the land the original waves moved to. Arab states surrounding that 28% had a huge issue with Jews existing in that space considering every one of those nations had genocide the Jews from their borders and even aligned with Hitler during WW2 (including the Palestinians, who allied with Hitler and whose leaders were eventually sent into exile by the British for doing so).

So, because the Arab states already had designs on the area of Palestine (they were going to annex once the British left), and they couldn't tolerate Jews existing in the area... The Arab nations attacked. And lost, soundly. And Israel grew much, much larger. Israel seized more land by fighting off a war than anywhere else. That's what happens when countries lose wars of aggression which they start; they lose territory. That's what Ukraine is doing to Russia right now and they'd be foolish to ever give it back.

But sometimes they do give some or all land back. Which Israel did. They gave a lot of the land back in exchange for peace.

There's no perfect entity in the world, and definitely not one in the Middle East. But please, spare us the Boogeyman one sided tales. The Jews fought for Israel so adamantly because they were exterminated from the region long before any fascist rose to power in Germany. They were forced out into diaspora several times, too. It's all complicated and unfair and it isn't as simple as Jews = European and don't belong there.

Palestinians need to bite the bullet. There are generations of people born there now and Arab states are not going to exterminate them again. So a two state solution is what they better seek unless they want to lose it all with their constant aggression. Is it ideal? No. Would it secure an actual state and begin the process of normalization? Maybe. But first they need to purge terrorists from their leadership. And that's the real stickler considering that shit runs deep in many Arab Nation governments. The two are intertwined just like emergency companies are in the west.

Not really. I mean, this person who everyone here is hailing as a hero has a long and documented history of making even worse jokes about his fellow soldiers dying.

If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander.

So you agree with the IDF in that targeting civilians is self defense?

Or are we playing pedantic games again where we try to rationalize bad things by wearing victimized status one moment while murdering children the next? Maybe the IDF and Hamas are both responsible. Hamas aren't freedom fighters like my fellow lefties are making them out to be. They want a theonomic system. And they have one.

That's the great thing: they never said they weren't nor tried to silence someone for Wrong Thinking. But the other person is. The other person said offensive works should be banned.

I sense the spirit of Joseph Lieberman in this thread.

I’m going to guess they wouldn’t kill the men and then rape, murder, and dismember the women and children on video to post it in celebration.

But maybe I’m wrong. With reductionism, anything is justifiable.

Most likely outcome. These are the people famous for holding bologna sandwiches hostage from starving people until they agree to hear indoctrination pitches under duress.