642
Let us never forget the most oppressed group of all, the Centrists
(media.kbin.earth)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2024
642 points (89.7% liked)
Lefty Memes
5601 readers
689 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
0.5 [Provisional Rule] Use alt text or image descriptions to allow greater accessibility
We require alternative text (from now referred to as "alt text") to be added to all posts/comments containing media, such as images, animated GIFs, videos, audio files, and custom emojis.
EDIT: For files you share in the comments, a simple summary should be enough if they’re too complex.
We are committed to social equity and to reducing barriers of entry, including (digital) communication and culture. It takes each of us only a few moments to make a whole world of content (more) accessible to a bunch of folks.
When alt text is absent, a reminder will be issued. If you don't add the missing alt text within 48 hours, the post will be removed. No hard feelings.
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
The most middle of the road opinion on Israel-Palestine issue is the two state solution. It worked on Northern Ireland with the Good Friday Agreement and it should work between Israel and Palestine. Many scholars from both sides also want to use NI peace deal as the blueprint. Compromise is the key just like with Protestants and Catholics did in Northern Ireland.
The problem is, of course radicals from both Palestine and Israel do not want this because-- well-- they're radical.
This is false. Only Israel does not want a two state solution. Even Hamas accepted it in 2017.
This is what people mean with enlightened centrism. There are no two sides preventing peace. There is only Israel preventing peace.
The 2017 Hamas charter is openly available on the Internet, and it says it still doesn't recognise Israel as a state and strive for "complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea." This is not really a two-state solution. Two states recognise each other's right to exist if this is indeed a two state solution.
Of course Hamas is not stupid like the PA. They will not recognize Israel unless Israel agrees to a two state solution.
Your arguments are the most generic Hasbara so I am not assuming you are speaking in good faith.
Hamas stated "from the river to the sea" in that charter you yourself mentioned. That could not be any more ambiguous.
Yes of course they have the right to regain all their stolen land unless Israel wants to accept a deal. What is your point exactly?
Read this before typing your next comment
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
They've pretty explicitly been aiming for a Palestinian state in the territories occupied since 1967. And not just recently, proposals for a permanent ceasefire (which sets the first steps towards recognition and normalization of relations) with Israel under these conditions go back to 1999. Conveniently, both Israel and the US didn't find it necessary to respond.
Hamas still doesn't recognise Israel, do they?
Does Israel recognize West Bank as Palestine?
From the article you linked:
Exactly the point. Both sides need to recognise each other. This isn't a sports competition. It doesn't require a PhD to figure that one out.
The PA recognizes Israel. What did that give them?
I think we can track down several times two state option was on the table, starting as early as 68
Very cool and false. But now everyone accepts it except Israel.
What is the benefit from lying? I don't get it. This is all basic info.
It was also on the table at Camp David.
How does that prove they're lying about Israel currently not supporting it?
Right now they're wanting to just take the land after eliminating the people who lived there
Because I said it was on the table several times in the past. And they wrote:
???
Yes because they've (Israel) always negotiated in good faith. Even the camp David accords was a 2 state solution in name only
Well, there you have it. The most unproductive statements as usual. If you don't know the specifics, why comment? Why not discuss the actual policies or the historical details? Why live in the realm of memes and buzzwords? Oh wait... I know why
You really want to discuss the specifics and history of just the versions that make Israel look good?
Why, do the details make Israel look good? Is there a reason to shy away from having a meaningful discussion or is it better to hide behind memes and catchphrases
They don't. And you're the one calling everything buzzwords, memes and catchphrases now.
Whats amazing is wanting to go into the history when that makes Israel look even worse. But you do you
Finally going through your comment history I see you're nothing but a constrain. There's nothing productive from further discussion. Have a great holiday
Par for the course. Searching for specifics or facts of a matter is not being a contrarian. It's called doing due diligence without letting bias cloud your view. We all have narratives we wish to paint. But unfortunately reality is more complicated than yapping online about how Nazzi or not Israel is. That's the difference between online virtue signaling and someone who is interested in pursuing the truth.
Notice none of that is an argument or denial of how shit Israel has been it's entire history.
Even bringing up nazis.
3/10 attempt
Notice how you can only engage at a superficial level with the topic? My money is you can't even locate Israel on a map at this point. But thanks for having an opinion on the subject. I'm not surprised as this has been the most you can get talking anything related to geopolitics on this platform.
And now insults. 1/10.
Have an argument.
It's impressive how much you type to say jack shit and make whatever you are arguing for worse.
It's impressive how much of an opinion on a topic people can have despite not knowing jack shit. But for some reason the onus is always on the rest of us to hold your hand. And if we get into the specifics of something suddenly we're 'contrarian'.
Israel is committing genocide for sure but don't kid yourself in the narrative that hamas is some noble liberation army. It's clear you're not equipped to talk about any of this.
At what point have I expressed anything that puts hamas in a good light?
Again still just insulting.
Ok now explain why Israel does not accept the deal since Hamas does accept it.
I do not have to read any history to disprove your lies. I can open the news right now.
You are correct. Israel, in the present does not accept the two state solution. Hence why I was talking about the past.
Why was it rejected by PLO when it was on the table?.
Show me where Hamas is open to a two state solution.
What is the meaning of "from the river to the sea"
You are trying to change the topic so hard.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/5/2/hamas-accepts-palestinian-state-with-1967-borders
How will creating two segregated ethno-religious states help anything?
What do you mean? The issue of Palestine and Israel isn't ethno-religious, it's nationalism in nature. There are still Muslim Arabs in Israel especially in the north where they live peacefully with Israeli Jews.
Oh so the Israelis tolerate some Muslims in israel do they. Interesting.