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How tankies and MAGAts view the Ukraine war
(lemmy.blahaj.zone)
I hate how “anti-war” has been hijacked by these people to mean, let imperialist countries invade whoever they want with no consequences. (in the case of tankies, any imperialist country that isn’t in NATO).
The idea of Ukraine joining NATO was literally unimaginable before Russian aggression. After the fall of the soviet union there were multiple agreements like the Declaration of State Sovereignty of Ukraine and Budapest Memorandum that basically established Ukraine as a sovereign and neutral nation under the protection of the west and east. Even after Russian interventions in Ukraine and finally the taking of Crimea, NATO members like Germany were still vocal about never letting Ukraine in.
Also if Russia truly cared about NATO expansion, how come we barely hear anything about Finland and Sweeden? I occasionally even forget they're a part of it now.
In the case of Finland, it's because they kicked Russia's ass last time and they would do it again.
They just have to announce that they've cloned Simo Häyhä and Russia won't even look at them sideways.
I sometimes think that it was exactly because they expected things to go as they did. If they let Ukraine in, they would need to ~~weasel out of helping~~ help, after all
Shows how little u know. Ukraine literally put NATO into the constitution prior to 2022.
Then zelensky tried to get nuclear weapons.
Again - don't follow msm, they have an agenda.
Citation needed.
The Ukranian constitution has no amendments even mentioning NATO.
And Zelenky demanding nuclear weapons is a recent development. So not "tried" but "trying right now". Not even the Russians claimed such prior.
And I don't watch MSNBC or whatever else "msm" is supposed to be. Bold of you to assume I not only watch American news, but also a specific broadcaster. That's got to be like a less than 50% chance.
MSM is mainstream media rather than a broadcaster. I actually hear it a lot from conservatives who are somehow convinced that Fox News isn't mainstream media despite being the USA's most watched network.
And you surely don't have an agenda.
That's why you come here with lies lmao
I don't care about Ukraine. I don't want my money going into military to support a country that has universal health care while I still do t have universal health care.
Fund universal healthcare, not Ukraine or Israel.
UHC is cheaper than the current US healthcare system. You can literally have both.
Funding for Ukraine isn't holding up UHC. Bad politicians are.
Someone needs to force their hand, if you just give them what they want anyways, there is no reason for them to do anything for u
Not sure punishing Ukrainians who are being raped and murdered in their own homes forces their hand in any way whatsoever. Seems like the least efficient way to do it.
Ukraine is not my concern.
I'm so annoyed by all these European freeloaders.
See the problem is that Biden could have easily negotiated some deal on Ukraine. That then doesn't require any resources spent on it. But because he has some shady buseness interests there - they used state resources to fight for his fucking personal business interests.
That's the problem.
Don't for a second think america wants to help someone. We dont help. We don't even give healthcare to own citizens , what do u think we would do to others.
Republicans spent significant efforts trying to prove shady business interests of the Bidens in Ukraine and never managed to find jack shit that ever seemed improper.
The US acts in its own interests. Countering Russian imperialism is part of that. They're not helping Ukraine out of pure good will, sure, but in this case US interests do align with doing the right thing.
I think you need to learn how the Military-Industrial Complex works, because if weapons aren't going to Ukraine, and it sounds like they won't, you still won't get your socialized medicine. Especially not in an oligarchical fascist dictatorship.
We the people should get stubborn and refuse to support the goals of military industrial complex as long as they keep refusing us our goals.
I get absolutely nothing from Israel achieving it's goals of killing brown neighboring people and clearing space for themselves. Nothing.
Ukraine - u know what! I don't care about it. Just cut a deal for mutual management of Ukraine and equal economic access. I don't care about Ukraine winning or Ukraine being a strong country in eastern Europe. I do not care. It's outside of my interests as a private citizen, only military industrial complex wants that war.
What are you doing to get "we the people" to do that other than arguing on the internet?
nothing. im not going to do shit.
im just annoyed people buy into propaganda that goes against their best interests.
You one post ago:
You now:
Which is it?
Fair, but it misses the trees for the forest. The US already pays WAY more for healthcare than any other country. The money is literally there, just mismanaged. While I feel your frustration, simply cutting aid to allied countries won't change anything domestically.
They are not allied countries for me.
Israel is a genocidal regime and Ukraine is just a shithole in eastern Europe.
I don't need these as allies.
I get absolutely nothing, 0 from funding them. Cut them
Really? You're going to complain about one country's genocide and justify another in the same sentence? At least be consistent
Everyone knows that's how becoming a NATO member works!
The EU works that way too! You tell them you want to join, make it super official that you pretty please want to join, and then you're in!