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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net

Here's how Ukraine was being reported by the West before the war.

Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.

These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.

Five years after Maidan, the beacon of democracy is looking more like a torchlight march. A neo-Nazi battalion in the heart of Europe

If you whitewash NAZI POGROMS just because you want to beat Russia, fuck you. Siding with far-right fascists to defeat far-right fascists doesn't make you the good guy. There is no lesser of two evils here.

If you dismiss any criticism of Ukraine as Russian propaganda, you might want to ask why the rest of the world, including the West, was concerned about Nazism in the area and then suddenly changed their tune only after the war started.

We should be getting both sides into peace negotiations, not prolonging the bloodshed and providing Nazis with illegal cluster bombs

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[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

Russians lost millions of live to whom? And who was engaging in eight years of pogroms and direct attacks on civilians in the Donbass? It's almost like exactly because of the history of Nazism as it relates to Russia, modern neo-Nazis doing ethnic cleansing on their borders might be of some concern to the Russians.

[-] MarxFuryRoad@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

As if Russia didn't have plenti of full-fledged fascists among his footmen. Can you explain me why Putin, an anti-comunist nationalist would have the slightest shit to give about ukrainians having the same ideology that serves him well domestically?

[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

Footmen don't call the shots, unlike in Ukraine.

[-] MarxFuryRoad@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

My point isn't that russia is fascist. My point is that if Putin wasn't lying about his antifacist justifications, he wouldn't be sending nazis to "de-nazify" Ukraine.

[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We've got every photo of Ukrainian troops as evidence they're largely Nazis. We've even got public statements by Ukrainian senior leadership about exterminating Russians and sympathizers in any territory they recapture. What's your proof the same is true about Russian troops or leadership? As far as I'm aware, this "Wagner are Nazis" theory comes from one single picture of the shit bag who used to be in charge of Wagner but isn't any longer.

edit: while I'm thinking about it - what is your obsession with Putin? Do you understand that the war is popular in Russia? That Putin is more popular now than he was before the war? That a very common sentiment in Russian elected government and the citizenry is that the war hasn't been prosecuted hard enough? If Putin were couped by Russians the war would almost certainly get kicked into high gear and the Russians would start honestly trying to capture all of Ukraine. This great man theory obsession with Putin himself is just off the mark.

[-] StalinForTime@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

You're right that the Ukrainian military is filled with Nazis (this doesn't mean all of them or a majority are consciously, but it does seem to be getting difficult to deny that now given the amount of evidence, at least when not of Ukrainian kids just pulled of the street).

However the idea that there is not a far-right presence in the Russian military is also not very believable, not least because we are still talking about a military state of a quite right-wing, nationalist, capitalist country. This in no way makes it equivalent to Ukraine however, because in Ukraine it appears to be far more integrated at every level of the military and state to be point where it appears like ultra-nationalism, bleeding into fascism, are the status-quo ideology.

Leaving aside the difference between "far right presence in the Russian military" and "explicit, patch-wearing, self-identifying neo nazis directly in leadership positions all over the Ukrainian state and military", this is the point I am making. Whether there are right wingers in militaries isn't even worth discussing - the answer is yes. Russia doesn't have nazi units, they don't have nazis in charge, they haven't been doing pogroms for eight years, and to try to equate that with Ukraine is just outright wrong.

[-] StalinForTime@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago
[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

I don't agree with your analysis, but to take your example for a moment I'd argue that sending nazis into a meat grinder of a war to fight other nazis is a pretty good way to kill two birds with one stone.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago

I remember one comment about conclusion of battle for Artemyovsk (Bakhmut), especially the losses: "Ukraine emptied its universities, Russia emptied its prisons".

By the way, my first comment on Hexbear, love from lemmygrad, comrades care

[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Congrats! Your first comment was a good one, I'd forgotten that comment. A less giant Care-Comrade right back at you (unless it is giant, I can't get used to all this yet).

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 year ago

Emoji sizes are sometimes mysteriously bungled, mine look like that for me:

spojler

While yours i see as HUGE:

spojler

[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

That's what yours look like to me! It's sort of annoying but also sort of fun.

It seems that we both recieved a much bigger hugs than we gave XD

this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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