293
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net to c/news@hexbear.net

Here's how Ukraine was being reported by the West before the war.

Today, increasing reports of far-right violence, ultranationalism, and erosion of basic freedoms are giving the lie to the West’s initial euphoria. There are neo-Nazi pogroms against the Roma, rampant attacks on feminists and LGBT groups, book bans, and state-sponsored glorification of Nazi collaborators.

These stories of Ukraine’s dark nationalism aren’t coming out of Moscow; they’re being filed by Western media, including US-funded Radio Free Europe (RFE); Jewish organizations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Simon Wiesenthal Center; and watchdogs like Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and Freedom House, which issued a joint report warning that Kiev is losing the monopoly on the use of force in the country as far-right gangs operate with impunity.

Five years after Maidan, the beacon of democracy is looking more like a torchlight march. A neo-Nazi battalion in the heart of Europe

If you whitewash NAZI POGROMS just because you want to beat Russia, fuck you. Siding with far-right fascists to defeat far-right fascists doesn't make you the good guy. There is no lesser of two evils here.

If you dismiss any criticism of Ukraine as Russian propaganda, you might want to ask why the rest of the world, including the West, was concerned about Nazism in the area and then suddenly changed their tune only after the war started.

We should be getting both sides into peace negotiations, not prolonging the bloodshed and providing Nazis with illegal cluster bombs

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] MarxFuryRoad@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

Apart from war crimes, I take this as one the most unforgivable things from an antifascist point of view. Putin, as the head of the russian state is completely dragging through the mud the glorious legacy of the big patriotic war.

80 years ago, russians lost millions to save the world. Now, it's all being turned into a an excuse for imperialism an tyrany.

[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 29 points 1 year ago

Russians lost millions of live to whom? And who was engaging in eight years of pogroms and direct attacks on civilians in the Donbass? It's almost like exactly because of the history of Nazism as it relates to Russia, modern neo-Nazis doing ethnic cleansing on their borders might be of some concern to the Russians.

[-] MarxFuryRoad@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

As if Russia didn't have plenti of full-fledged fascists among his footmen. Can you explain me why Putin, an anti-comunist nationalist would have the slightest shit to give about ukrainians having the same ideology that serves him well domestically?

[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

Footmen don't call the shots, unlike in Ukraine.

[-] MarxFuryRoad@hexbear.net 3 points 1 year ago

My point isn't that russia is fascist. My point is that if Putin wasn't lying about his antifacist justifications, he wouldn't be sending nazis to "de-nazify" Ukraine.

[-] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We've got every photo of Ukrainian troops as evidence they're largely Nazis. We've even got public statements by Ukrainian senior leadership about exterminating Russians and sympathizers in any territory they recapture. What's your proof the same is true about Russian troops or leadership? As far as I'm aware, this "Wagner are Nazis" theory comes from one single picture of the shit bag who used to be in charge of Wagner but isn't any longer.

edit: while I'm thinking about it - what is your obsession with Putin? Do you understand that the war is popular in Russia? That Putin is more popular now than he was before the war? That a very common sentiment in Russian elected government and the citizenry is that the war hasn't been prosecuted hard enough? If Putin were couped by Russians the war would almost certainly get kicked into high gear and the Russians would start honestly trying to capture all of Ukraine. This great man theory obsession with Putin himself is just off the mark.

[-] StalinForTime@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago

You're right that the Ukrainian military is filled with Nazis (this doesn't mean all of them or a majority are consciously, but it does seem to be getting difficult to deny that now given the amount of evidence, at least when not of Ukrainian kids just pulled of the street).

However the idea that there is not a far-right presence in the Russian military is also not very believable, not least because we are still talking about a military state of a quite right-wing, nationalist, capitalist country. This in no way makes it equivalent to Ukraine however, because in Ukraine it appears to be far more integrated at every level of the military and state to be point where it appears like ultra-nationalism, bleeding into fascism, are the status-quo ideology.

Leaving aside the difference between "far right presence in the Russian military" and "explicit, patch-wearing, self-identifying neo nazis directly in leadership positions all over the Ukrainian state and military", this is the point I am making. Whether there are right wingers in militaries isn't even worth discussing - the answer is yes. Russia doesn't have nazi units, they don't have nazis in charge, they haven't been doing pogroms for eight years, and to try to equate that with Ukraine is just outright wrong.

[-] StalinForTime@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago
[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

I don't agree with your analysis, but to take your example for a moment I'd argue that sending nazis into a meat grinder of a war to fight other nazis is a pretty good way to kill two birds with one stone.

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago

I remember one comment about conclusion of battle for Artemyovsk (Bakhmut), especially the losses: "Ukraine emptied its universities, Russia emptied its prisons".

By the way, my first comment on Hexbear, love from lemmygrad, comrades care

[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Congrats! Your first comment was a good one, I'd forgotten that comment. A less giant Care-Comrade right back at you (unless it is giant, I can't get used to all this yet).

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 1 year ago

Emoji sizes are sometimes mysteriously bungled, mine look like that for me:

spojler

While yours i see as HUGE:

spojler

[-] MolotovHalfEmpty@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago

That's what yours look like to me! It's sort of annoying but also sort of fun.

It seems that we both recieved a much bigger hugs than we gave XD

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

imperialism an tyrany

jesse-wtf wasn't expecting a hexbear to be regurgitating this 'words for emotion not content' nonsense

[-] emizeko@hexbear.net 27 points 1 year ago

using "imperialism" as if it just means "war"

Marx is in your username, where is the awareness of political economy in your brain?

[-] MarxFuryRoad@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

I'm not using imperialism as meaning war, I'm using imperialism as: using of nationalism along with military might in order to assert regional domimance. If you dom't call that imperialism, I would be curious to hear your definition

[-] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You're bringing shame to Hexbear picard

You do actually have to do the reading I know we post a lot about anime and video games but there's work involved too. It's called the Belden Program brace-cowboy The bright side is eventually you gain this superpower where you tend to know more about everything than most regular people.

[-] CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago
[-] HamManBad@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

Ok not trying to be a lib here but doesn't Russia have concentrated capital in the hands of its bourgeoisie, and is using the very real existence of Ukrainian Nazis to justify asserting control over its Ukrainian oil interests? To my eyes there's really not a good guy in this situation, it's imperial territorial pissing all the way down, comparable the first world war. In fact I would say the shock therapy Russia went through in the 90s locked them into an imperialist political economy, since it was essentially an exact reversal of what Lenin is advocating here

[-] panopticon@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago

There are some missing pieces that would be necessary to recognize them as fully imperialist. Imperialism also involves export of capital to subject countries in order to turn them into export economies for the imperialist. It also involves the imperialist countries competing to divide the world into more or less mutually exclusive spheres of exploitation. To my knowledge, Russia's economic mode does not principally involve export of capital or maintaining any neo-colonies.

Russia is locked into a bourgeois political economy and its principal mode is industrial capitalism. It has not (yet) made the qualitative transition into the imperialist mode, which isn't to say that it could not do so or lacks the necessary preconditions. My understanding is very basic, I'm not claiming to be an expert on this topic, but hopefully that helps explain why people jumped on your rump about this.

[-] TreadOnMe@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Russia already had a majority control over Ukrainian oil interests because they have the bargaining power of being (and this is still true btw, during wartime) Ukriane's main supplier of natural gas. They could have, and it probably would have been smarter economically, for them to, bargain with the Ukrainian government, trading the political rights of the Donbass for control over the oil. But that is not what this war is about. This war is primarily about NATO, geo-political control, and the fact that it would have been massively unpopular and incredibly disruptive for Russia to give up the Donbass, and what they were doing was not a long-term solution as long as Ukraine continues to arm themselves and politically bang the drum for a full-scale invasion. Whether or not that invasion was imminent in 2022 is unclear, as the Kiev government was completely taken by surprise by the Russian invasion, but also had been making huge rhetorical speeches about retaking the Donbass regions. It's very unclear at the moment, and history may or may not provide clarification.

You aren't incorrect that capital is concentrated in the hands of a national bourgeoisie, but that an imperialist economic model does not strictly make. As @panopticon@hexbear.net pointed out, being imperialist is about separating a 'core' from a 'periphery' and treating them as exclusive zones for exploitation. The development of Crimea for the last decade has shown that that isn't what Russia does in areas they annex, they are simply incorporated into the 'core'. Now we can argue about if their exploitation of the Chechens is imperialism, but even then, Russia is almost always trying to be an honest broker in their deals (with the continued natural gas trading to Ukriane is evidence for). They are capitalists and exploiters of their own people, but imperialists is abit of a stretch, from a Marxist-Leninist definition.

[-] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 1 points 1 year ago

using of nationalism along with military might in order to assert regional domimance

So war then

this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
293 points (100.0% liked)

news

23532 readers
633 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS